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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You're absolutely right Rick! Thanks for the rant,
I was disappointed that it didn't last longer :-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hey, you want to REALLY freak everyone out? Let's
add a Blender to the 2007 Masters Sequence. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Keith Black</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=patterndude@comcast.net href="mailto:patterndude@comcast.net">Lance
Van Nostrand</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 10, 2005 10:54
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Reverse av/RCU poll</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Rick,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Awesome. Straight to the heart. I
laughed out loud at your ending and my wife said, "C'mon, there's nothing
about airplanes thats that funny!"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>--Lance</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=rickwallace45@hotmail.com
href="mailto:rickwallace45@hotmail.com">rick wallace</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 10, 2005 4:47
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Reverse av/RCU poll</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I’ve been thinking
a lot about this but hadn’t been writing much on this forum…
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Let’s see… pattern
planes and contests… </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
11 lb event weight limit… </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Many folks flying sub 10-lb planes … </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Guys building 10 ounce wing panels… (for reference, my Focus I ARF wings
came out of the box at 17ounces each) </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I wonder if there
might be a connection between these three facts / factors…
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Add to this that
there’s a renewed emphasis on flying – and scoring - REAL snaps – as
shown in the World champs 2003 and FAI Nats 2004 – so now we have to do –
and practice - REAL snaps -</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">And now the
discussion is to delete snaps from ALL our sequences? </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This doesn’t add up
somehow… seems to me that … </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
- The maneuvers haven’t gotten nastier. A snap is a snap is a snap.
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
- The 2005 Master’s schedule’s been around along time – proposed in 2002, I
think – there was LOTS of time for reflection between then and now.
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">- If
the planes can’t do the maneuvers, maybe it’s because they’ve gotten too
light. <gasp> Or we’ve temporarily forgotten how to build a plane to
do what it’s called on to do. </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">BUT… -
If the current planes can’t do the maneuver (and I’m not convinced that’s an
issue), the fix shouldn’t be to dumb down the maneuvers, it should be to fix
the planes. There’s room in the 11# weight limit, and techniques aplenty to
do just that. Even for ARF wings. </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Seems like pattern guys and our toys have always been on the cutting edge of
the aerobatics scene - -until now – are we losing that position???
There are kids (of many ages) flying and hovering and gyrating their
little foamies and Funtanas and 32-1/2% Edges all over the place – and even
snapping them! I guess our expensive pattern planes are just to good – and
too fragile – to do the same maneuvers in a precision manner???
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Maybe
the next rules change should be a Depron pattern class… maybe with takeoffs
optional, and landings = a K5 (or maybe just an automatic 10 – oh yeah, I
forgot – we’re already there...). Maybe the hardest maneuver could be
a roll (we don’t want to overstress the airframes with high – stress
maneuvers like LOOPS – the plane might break if someone does too tight a
loop at full throttle.) </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">But seriously,
folks – C'mon, guys -- this is supposed to be a sequence for MASTERS pilots
and associated equipment... <BR><BR>If we can't build -- and fly -- such
that we can survive a snap, ... maybe the class should be renamed to
something a little less presumptuous... maybe 'More Advanced' -- or 'Highly
Proficient' -- or 'Striving for Very Good' -- certainly something less
assertive than 'MASTERS'... <BR><BR>There's ample proof that the sequence is
flyable and that properly built equipment will stand up to it. FAI F-05 has
a rev A w/ 1-1/2 in it, for heaven's sake... <BR><BR>This apparently endless
second-guessing of sequences - first the unending flap over the Intermediate
snap and now this... is really pretty disheartening. <BR><BR>I'm not crazy
about the 2005 Masters sequence, but it's flyable and scorable. Let's go fly
it as it was proposed, voted on, approved, and accepted -- and maybe pay
more attention to the next set of proposed sequences?</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Heading for the
shop to strengthen my wings – while staying within the 11# limit -- then to
the field to practice flying the 2005 “Not Nearly as Good as FAI but Maybe
better than Advanced but Not Sure I can Do this Stuff” class (formerly
Masters) sequence. </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">End of rant.
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Rick Wallace
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">AMA
L727</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">NSRCA 2972
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Bob Richards<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, January 10, 2005 3:47
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: Reverse av/RCU
poll</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Nat,</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I respectfully disagree.
</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Forget about the reverse avalanche for
a moment. I find it unacceptable that it is <EM><I><FONT
face="Times New Roman">possible</FONT></I></EM> for a schedule to be put in
place with a maneuver that breaks current airplanes. And everyone says "suck
it up", "get over it", and we have to build new planes. Which, by the way,
are now worth less since anyone planning to move up to Masters is not going
to want to buy them.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Having to design/build new planes
because the old design does not fly the new schedule very well is one thing,
but to have to do it because the current designs simply won't survive is
something else altogether. Sure, I could fly a Tipo in the Advanced class if
I want. It may not fly the greatest, but it will fly. And it will certainly
challenge me. At least I won't have to carry a shovel in my
flightbox.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Sure, in a couple of years, everyone
flying Masters will all have planes that will survive. Natural
selection will take care of that. BUT, will the sport be better off? I don't
think so. Some flyers may be put off by it. But, we only want the best
flying Masters, right!</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I'm not saying we should not make the
maneuvers less challenging. Heck, we could make the schedule more
challenging -- for the pilots, not the planes -- without having to put
maneuvers in the schedule that breaks planes.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I really wanted to get back into
pattern this year. Had planned on flying my old Finesse. Looks like I might
be better off with my old Cap 21. Then again, maybe
not.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Bob Richards (climbing off my
soapbox).</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR><B><I><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-STYLE: italic">Nat Penton
<natpenton@centurytel.net></SPAN></I></B>
wrote:</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Ok all you masters fliers, quit
complaining and take your medicine. Your <BR>problems with the reverse
avalanche are imaginary. Manuever schedules have <BR>always been designed
to bring about enhancement of the pilots and the <BR>airframes
capabilities.<BR><BR>It is not difficult to build an airframe that you
cannot tear up. The <BR>wingtube, for its weight, provides the most
strength and rigidity of any <BR>structural component. Why would you cut
it off
??</SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>