<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2523" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Maybe Sportsman ought to be a 1 full year maximum,
then automatic move up to intermediate.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=DaveL322@comcast.net href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">David
Lockhart</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 10, 2005 8:19
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Class Structure</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ken,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I understand your point and am not specifically
looking to take away the "carrot". A repeated theme I've heard from
potential pattern newbies is about intimidation - they won't go to a contest
because they don't have a "pattern" plane and don't want to spend the $$$ on a
pattern plane to find out if they like the event. They also don't want
to go to a contest and fly in the entry level class (currently called
Sportsman) and find they are competing with someone who not only has a pattern
plane but has been flying in the class for 3 year. Real "pattern" planes
and long term pilots in the Sportsman class are both intimidating to a
significant number of potential pattern newbies. And whether or not the
real "pattern" plane is really of benefit to a new pattern pilot in Sportsman
- for some it is (they can handle the plane and are not afraid of it), and for
others it is probably a detriment (they are scared of the plane and likely way
behind it) - but that is secondary to bigger issue that the perception is that
the pattern plane is needed and this is reinforced when the guys winning the
entry level class are flying "pattern" planes.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I certainly don't want to see someone as yourself
drop out if the District Championship were removed, but, if it were
removed, I think some of the currently intimidated pilots would try pattern
and maybe stay around. No way to know for certain. I would
certainly welcome any additional thoughts you have.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards,</FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<DIV><BR>Dave</DIV>
<DIV></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mrandmrst@comcast.net href="mailto:mrandmrst@comcast.net">Ken
Thompson III</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 10, 2005 8:37
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Class Structure</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks Ed,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>And for those who are really paying attention,
I meant</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> "receive a plaque" not "achieve a
plaque". <oops></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ken</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=edbon85@charter.net href="mailto:edbon85@charter.net">Ed
Miller</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 10, 2005 8:25
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Class Structure</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have to agree, the "golden carrot" is a
good thing. I see no reason why there shouldn't be district Sportsman
champions. If we want to attract and retain, there should be a
reward.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ed M.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mrandmrst@comcast.net href="mailto:mrandmrst@comcast.net">Ken
Thompson III</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 10, 2005 7:50
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Class Structure</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dave,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As a pattern newbie, I respectfully
disagree with one part of your statement. A lot of newbies,
including myself, have only been in this hobby a relatively short period
of time. </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>In my few contests that I
was able to attend, last year, I got beat continuously. In my quest
to become a better pilot, that championship plaque will always be in my
sights. That Sportsman championship would be a goal of most entry
level pattern pilots, possibly obtainable in a couple of short
years.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>When that goal is achieved, the next goal
is the Intermediate championship, in that district, which will be my
goal before I am forced to move up on points.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>That progression is my personal goal, and I
believe the goal of many of my entry level peers.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>And before anyone asks, "Are you in this
only for the wood?", I'm in this to become a better pilot. However
the wood is a nice accompaniment, this year I would like to achieve a
plaque, not because there were only 3 Sportsman pilots, but because I
actually flew better than a few. <VBG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ken Thompson</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>NSRCA 3646</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>D4 Sportsman, again</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=DaveL322@comcast.net href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">David
Lockhart</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, January 09, 2005
8:40 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Class
Structure</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT
color=#0000ff><STRONG><EM>I don't think the entry level class
should crown a year end District Championship - anyone who wants to
seriously campaign in pattern is already hooked, and should move up to
the next level</EM></STRONG></FONT> - keep a true pattern newbie from
having to compete with some who is already committed to pattern.
I don't see the entry level class being too easy as a problem -
someone can always choose to start in a higher class.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards,</FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>
<DIV><BR>Dave Lockhart</DIV>
<DIV><A
href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A></DIV>
<DIV></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=verne@twmi.rr.com href="mailto:verne@twmi.rr.com">Verne
Koester</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">NSRCA</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, January 09, 2005
6:58 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Class Structure</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Georgie,<BR>Here's a novel idea. Leave
Intermediate alone and take the snaps out of <BR>Advanced. A pilot
coming out of Intermediate into Advanced already has to <BR>learn
Slow Rolls, 4 Point Rolls, and a longer schedule with more crosswind
<BR>exposure maneuvers which is plenty.<BR><BR>The step from
Advanced to Masters is minimal at best. The step from
<BR>Intermediate to Advanced is monumental. The end result is a
bunch of pilots <BR>in Intermediate that are getting bored with
their schedule but still not <BR>ready for Advanced so they want to
add snaps to it. Only problem is that <BR>someone coming out of
Sportsman will likely be scared away if Intermediate <BR>is made any
tougher.<BR><BR>It's no surprise to me that the number of Masters
pilots at any given <BR>contest are far greater than the classes
that precede it. Most of us who are <BR>there came up through a
balanced system of steps. We're all out of whack <BR>right now.
Unfortunately, I seem to be one of only a handful of Masters and
<BR>higher pilots that still remembers how hard it was to learn slow
and 4 point <BR>rolls which gets introduced at the Advanced level.
Take the snaps and spins <BR>out of Advanced and introduce them at
the Masters level, put some box exits <BR>back where they need to
be, and you'll have a logical, balanced, and <BR>transitional
set of schedules that takes a pilot from Sportsman to however
<BR>high he or she wants to go.<BR><BR>Verne
Koester<BR><BR><BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: "George
Kennie" <</FONT><A href=""><FONT
face="Times New Roman">geobet@gis.net</FONT></A><FONT
face="Times New Roman">><BR>To: <</FONT><A href=""><FONT
face="Times New Roman">discussion@nsrca.org</FONT></A><FONT
face="Times New Roman">><BR>Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 2:28
PM<BR>Subject: Re: adding interest and complexity to Sportsman ...
again and again <BR>and<BR><BR><BR>> <<I'm not flying
masters, I'm flying advanced, the reason is<BR>> Masters
is<BR>> more difficult than I think I can reasonably fly at this
time, so<BR>> I'll work my way up. >><BR>><BR>> I
respectfully disagree with your assessment of schedule
difficulty.<BR>> I get the feeling that you haven't taken the
time to sit down and<BR>> really study the current Master's
sequence. I commend your attitude<BR>> of working your way
up!!!IMHO, I find the current Master's much less<BR>> threatening
than the Advanced sequence.<BR>><BR>> Somebody mentioned
"going to contests without practicing", and<BR>> indeed I can
remember, back in the 60's going to a contest myself<BR>> having
never performed the required routine and doing quite well at<BR>>
the time.However those were significantly different times and
I<BR>> myself would not desire to return to the mindset of that
period.It<BR>> was called a "Pattern Contest" and the attendance
was probably a<BR>> couple of hundred guys, but the mindset was
more like a current day<BR>> "Fun- Fly". Nobody really took it
all that seriously. Somewhere<BR>> along the line, the few
individuals that did have a more serious<BR>> approach organized
and brought a more serious aspect to the sport<BR>> realizing
that the basis for guys going out and flying a routine<BR>> that
was in fact JUDGED meant that the concept must<BR>>
be"COMPETITION". I think that this is probably the reason you
still<BR>> find the most heavily attended events to be
"Fun-Fly's". When it<BR>> gets too serious there are a lot of
guys that start to feel<BR>> threatened regarding their status
within the group structure and<BR>> when the pressure becomes, in
their estimation, greater than feels<BR>> comfortable to them,
they gravitate to a different venue that<BR>> restores the level
of comfort they deem appropriate.<BR>> The same thing seems to
happen, in my judgement, with schedule<BR>> complexity.Some
of us realize that if the schedules become more and<BR>> more
complex, at some point the difficulty factor will become<BR>>
significant enough to threaten our currently hard won
achievement<BR>> status, and indeed this is true.The decision
that probably needs to<BR>> be reasoned through is,in light of
this truth, should the pursuit of<BR>> excellence be sacrificed
to satisfy the inadequacies of those of us<BR>> who are
clammoring to maintain their elevation?<BR>> I consider myself a
part of this equation and recognize my own<BR>> inadequacies,
however I also realize that this same pursuit of<BR>>
excellence will not be enhanced by any concession to tilt
the<BR>> playing field in my favor. Noone will be served by that
tack. Least<BR>> of all ME! My flying prowess ranks somewhere
between Sportsman and<BR>> Intermediate(my assessment), and
though I find a couple of the FAI<BR>> maneuvers really tough to
execute in a graceful manner, I still feel<BR>> that there is no
maneuver that I could not learn to do and given<BR>> another 50
years of practice I might even be in a position to<BR>> challenge
Jason.<BR>> It's about STRIVING guys. That's what COMPETITION is!
And it's<BR>> purpose is to determine the most skilled
individual, with the rest<BR>> of us rated in descending order
beneath the rating of the BEST! So,<BR>> as you can see, I'm not
in favor of wussing out to make things<BR>> easier for anybody
who finds their position at the pinnacle<BR>> precarious(and that
includes ME).<BR>> Now, all that being said, I do feel that we
may have a void at the<BR>> bottom and should probably go back
again and reconsider a pre-novice<BR>> class for the guy who has
only been involved in the sport for 2<BR>> weeks and has never
practiced flying a straight line.This shouldn't<BR>> take much
additional time as the number of guys showing up to<BR>>
participate in this class will indeed be very few (which begs
the<BR>> question, how far do we have to concede in order to grow
the<BR>> ranks?).<BR>> The Sportsman sequence I proposed a
couple of days ago DOES appear<BR>> to be too difficult for some
of the respondants(but not all) and<BR>> maybe the old Novice
schedule should be made available for anybody<BR>> showing up to
try (as a pre-novice event).I also think that the<BR>>
Intermediate should introduce it's participant to the 45
downline<BR>> snap or at least a center snap on a horizontal
baseline as<BR>> preparation for Advanced.<BR>> Only a bunch
of opinions, guys! Don't mean I'm right!<BR>>
G.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>
=================================================<BR>> To access
the email archives for this list, go to<BR>> </FONT><A
href=""><FONT
face="Times New Roman">http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">> To be removed from this list, go to
</FONT><A href=""><FONT
face="Times New Roman">http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">> and follow the
instructions.</FONT><BR></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>