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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>He ignores you cuz you use big words,
like</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You have to get to his level, Pard....
<BG></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<DIV><BR>Bob Pastorello<BR>NSRCA 199 AMA 46373<BR><A
href="mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net">rcaerobob@cox.net</A><BR><A
href="http://www.rcaerobats.net">www.rcaerobats.net</A></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=gfowler@raytheon.com href="mailto:gfowler@raytheon.com">Gray E
Fowler</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 12, 2005 2:29
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Judge Feedback</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>Earl,</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2>Perhaps Wayne will listen to you....he ignores my
input.....<BR><BR><BR><BR>Gray Fowler<BR>Principal Chemical
Engineer<BR>Composites Engineering</FONT> <BR><BR><BR>
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<TD><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><B>"Wayne Galligan" <<A
href="mailto:wgalligan@goodsonacura.com">wgalligan@goodsonacura.com</A>></B></FONT>
<BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>Sent by: <A
href="mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org">discussion-request@nsrca.org</A></FONT>
<P><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>01/12/2005 02:06 PM</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=1>Please respond to discussion</FONT> <BR></P>
<TD><FONT face=Arial size=1> </FONT><BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=1> To:
<<A
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A>></FONT>
<BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=1> cc:
</FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>
Subject: Re: Judge
Feedback</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Earl,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>You have valid points as does Keith. I have to agree with
Keith here on a few points. Mainly being that I practice by myself with
little or no mentoring just because its not there. SO... I learn more in
3 days at a contest then I do in month of practice on my own.
</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Meet
me and Keith in WACO some weekend and we will gladly take you up on the
mentoring thing. :-) </FONT> <BR><FONT size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2>Your friendly advanced participants. . ;-)</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wayne G</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=3>----- Original Message ----- </FONT><BR><FONT
size=3><B>From:</B> </FONT><A href="mailto:ehaury@houston.rr.com"><FONT
color=blue size=3><U>Earl Haury</U></FONT></A><FONT size=3> </FONT><BR><FONT
size=3><B>To:</B> </FONT><A href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org"><FONT
color=blue size=3><U>Discussion List, NSRCA</U></FONT></A><FONT size=3>
</FONT><BR><FONT size=3><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 12, 2005 8:15
AM</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3><B>Subject:</B> Judge Feedback</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2>Here are some considerations regarding judges providing
feedback to competitors the we should address. </FONT><BR><FONT
size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>The key word is
"competitors". Judges score individuals performances in competitions that are
held to ascertain the relative skills of competitors to perform according to
stated rules and descriptions. Being a competition - one should assume that
flyers present their patterns to the unbiased judge sets and the let scores
describe the ranking. </FONT><BR><FONT size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial size=3>The presumption is that the competitors arrive prepared to
compete. Those who have worked the hardest on this preparation will (and
should) generally excel. A pattern contest isn't intended to be a training
ground, but a review of achievement and peer comparison. Judges who provide
feedback have good intentions, but there are questions that deserve attention.
Isn't the job of the judge to provide the correct score for each maneuver? Is
it appropriate for the judge to (mis)direct attention to make notations for
post flight feedback? Will the feedback be consistent to all competitors, or
"buddy biased"? Is it fair to my competition for judges to point out my errors
so that I can correct them in subsequent flights? If judges with largely
different scores on a specific maneuver offer feedback and disagree - then
what? In the latter, will this disagreement influence a ju</FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2>dge to change standards mid-round? Wha! t if some wish to
discuss feedback, or argue with it, at the expense of delaying the next
flight? What if this agitates the judges and you're next up?
</FONT><BR><FONT size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>I realize
that the gist of the feedback issue is to benefit the newbie, but the above
points apply here also. We seem to accept that anyone, without practice or
proper equipment or preparation (reading the rules), should be able to fly
successfully in some form of "beginner" class. This doesn't happen - and we've
fiddled with the rules of the beginner class for years to little avail.
Unfortunately, the judges feedback at a contest isn't going to help the
unprepared. What will help is mentoring - but not from the judges chair!
</FONT><BR><FONT size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>The best
place to help the newbie is at the practice field where everything can be
addressed. Coach these folks, provide feedback and assistance. Judge flights,
take notes, and critique. Help trim their airplane, be supportive with
equipment maintenance, etc. Get them prepared for those first contests, call
for them, critique their flights, evaluate their scores, help them in every
way as a coach and friend, and pattern will gain in numbers. Just don't do
this from the judges chair - judging is the only job then. </FONT><BR><FONT
size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Earl</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT size=3> </FONT>
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