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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I understand Bernoulli's principle and things like
power to weight ratio, drag limiting and inducing parameters, I.C. and
electronic movement devices... but words like up/down.....come on... why
does it have to be sooo hard?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>WG</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=rcaerobob@cox.net href="mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net">Bob Pastorello</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 12, 2005 5:03
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Judge Feedback</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>He ignores you cuz you use big words,
like</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"Up"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"Down"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"left"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"Right"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You have to get to his level, Pard....
<BG></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<DIV><BR>Bob Pastorello<BR>NSRCA 199 AMA 46373<BR><A
href="mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net">rcaerobob@cox.net</A><BR><A
href="http://www.rcaerobats.net">www.rcaerobats.net</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=gfowler@raytheon.com href="mailto:gfowler@raytheon.com">Gray E
Fowler</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 12, 2005 2:29
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Judge Feedback</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>Earl,</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2>Perhaps Wayne will listen to you....he ignores my
input.....<BR><BR><BR><BR>Gray Fowler<BR>Principal Chemical
Engineer<BR>Composites Engineering</FONT> <BR><BR><BR>
<TABLE width="100%">
<TBODY>
<TR vAlign=top>
<TD>
<TD><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><B>"Wayne Galligan" <<A
href="mailto:wgalligan@goodsonacura.com">wgalligan@goodsonacura.com</A>></B></FONT>
<BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>Sent by: <A
href="mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org">discussion-request@nsrca.org</A></FONT>
<P><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>01/12/2005 02:06 PM</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=1>Please respond to discussion</FONT> <BR></P>
<TD><FONT face=Arial size=1>
</FONT><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>
To: <<A
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A>></FONT>
<BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=1> cc:
</FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif
size=1> Subject:
Re: Judge Feedback</FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2>Earl,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2>You have valid points as does Keith. I have to
agree with Keith here on a few points. Mainly being that I practice by
myself with little or no mentoring just because its not there. SO... I
learn more in 3 days at a contest then I do in month of practice on my own.
</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Meet me and Keith in WACO some weekend and we will gladly take you up
on the mentoring thing. :-) </FONT> <BR><FONT size=3> </FONT>
<BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Your friendly advanced participants. .
;-)</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Wayne G</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3>----- Original Message -----
</FONT><BR><FONT size=3><B>From:</B> </FONT><A
href="mailto:ehaury@houston.rr.com"><FONT color=blue size=3><U>Earl
Haury</U></FONT></A><FONT size=3> </FONT><BR><FONT size=3><B>To:</B>
</FONT><A href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org"><FONT color=blue
size=3><U>Discussion List, NSRCA</U></FONT></A><FONT size=3>
</FONT><BR><FONT size=3><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 12, 2005 8:15
AM</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3><B>Subject:</B> Judge Feedback</FONT>
<BR><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Here are some considerations regarding
judges providing feedback to competitors the we should address.
</FONT><BR><FONT size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>The key
word is "competitors". Judges score individuals performances in competitions
that are held to ascertain the relative skills of competitors to perform
according to stated rules and descriptions. Being a competition - one should
assume that flyers present their patterns to the unbiased judge sets and the
let scores describe the ranking. </FONT><BR><FONT size=3> </FONT>
<BR><FONT face=Arial size=3>The presumption is that the competitors arrive
prepared to compete. Those who have worked the hardest on this preparation
will (and should) generally excel. A pattern contest isn't intended to be a
training ground, but a review of achievement and peer comparison. Judges who
provide feedback have good intentions, but there are questions that deserve
attention. Isn't the job of the judge to provide the correct score for each
maneuver? Is it appropriate for the judge to (mis)direct attention to make
notations for post flight feedback? Will the feedback be consistent to all
competitors, or "buddy biased"? Is it fair to my competition for judges to
point out my errors so that I can correct them in subsequent flights? If
judges with largely different scores on a specific maneuver offer feedback
and disagree - then what? In the latter, will this disagreement influence a
ju</FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>dge to change standards mid-round? Wha! t
if some wish to discuss feedback, or argue with it, at the expense of
delaying the next flight? What if this agitates the judges and
you're next up? </FONT><BR><FONT size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>I realize that the gist of the feedback issue is to benefit the
newbie, but the above points apply here also. We seem to accept that anyone,
without practice or proper equipment or preparation (reading the rules),
should be able to fly successfully in some form of "beginner" class. This
doesn't happen - and we've fiddled with the rules of the beginner class for
years to little avail. Unfortunately, the judges feedback at a contest isn't
going to help the unprepared. What will help is mentoring - but not from the
judges chair! </FONT><BR><FONT size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>The best place to help the newbie is at the practice field where
everything can be addressed. Coach these folks, provide feedback and
assistance. Judge flights, take notes, and critique. Help trim their
airplane, be supportive with equipment maintenance, etc. Get them prepared
for those first contests, call for them, critique their flights, evaluate
their scores, help them in every way as a coach and friend, and pattern will
gain in numbers. Just don't do this from the judges chair - judging is the
only job then. </FONT><BR><FONT size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Earl</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT
size=3> </FONT> <BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>