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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Got it Gray................... inside the
box. I guess I am just to used to.....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"Thinking outside of the BOX"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>WG</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=gfowler@raytheon.com href="mailto:gfowler@raytheon.com">Gray E
Fowler</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 13, 2005 8:25
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Judge Feedback</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>What you need to dig baby is
the term......"you are about to fly outta the box". At this point in the
flight a proper response would be to at least start your turnaround as opposed
to saying..".No I am not".<BR><BR><BR><BR>Gray Fowler<BR>Principal Chemical
Engineer<BR>Composites Engineering</FONT> <BR><BR><BR>
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<TD><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><B>"Wayne Galligan" <<A
href="mailto:wgalligan@goodsonacura.com">wgalligan@goodsonacura.com</A>></B></FONT>
<BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>Sent by:
discussion-request@nsrca.org</FONT>
<P><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>01/12/2005 05:21 PM</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=1>Please respond to discussion</FONT> <BR></P>
<TD><FONT face=Arial size=1> </FONT><BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=1> To:
<discussion@nsrca.org></FONT> <BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=1> cc:
</FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>
Subject: Re: Judge
Feedback</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>I
understand Bernoulli's principle and things like power to weight ratio, drag
limiting and inducing parameters, I.C. and electronic movement devices... but
words like up/down.....come on... why does it have to be sooo
hard?</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>WG</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT size=3>-----
Original Message ----- </FONT><BR><FONT size=3><B>From:</B> </FONT><A
href="mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net"><FONT color=blue size=3><U>Bob
Pastorello</U></FONT></A><FONT size=3> </FONT><BR><FONT size=3><B>To:</B>
</FONT><A href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org"><FONT color=blue
size=3><U>discussion@nsrca.org</U></FONT></A><FONT size=3> </FONT><BR><FONT
size=3><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 12, 2005 5:03 PM</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=3><B>Subject:</B> Re: Judge Feedback</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>He ignores you cuz you use big words, like</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>"Up"</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>"Down"</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2>"left"</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>"Right"</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>You have to get to
his level, Pard.... <BG></FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2><BR>Bob
Pastorello<BR>NSRCA 199 AMA 46373</FONT><FONT face=Arial color=blue
size=2><U><BR></U></FONT><A href="mailto:rcaerobob@cox.net"><FONT face=Arial
color=blue size=2><U>rcaerobob@cox.net</U></FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
color=blue size=2><U><BR></U></FONT><A href="http://www.rcaerobats.net/"><FONT
face=Arial color=blue size=2><U>www.rcaerobats.net</U></FONT></A> <BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2> </FONT> <BR><FONT size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT
size=3>----- Original Message ----- </FONT><BR><FONT size=3><B>From:</B>
</FONT><A href="mailto:gfowler@raytheon.com"><FONT color=blue size=3><U>Gray E
Fowler</U></FONT></A><FONT size=3> </FONT><BR><FONT size=3><B>To:</B>
</FONT><A href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org"><FONT color=blue
size=3><U>discussion@nsrca.org</U></FONT></A><FONT size=3> </FONT><BR><FONT
size=3><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 12, 2005 2:29 PM</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=3><B>Subject:</B> Re: Judge Feedback</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=sans-serif
size=2><BR>Earl,</FONT><FONT size=3> <BR></FONT><FONT face=sans-serif
size=2><BR>Perhaps Wayne will listen to you....he ignores my
input.....<BR><BR><BR><BR>Gray Fowler<BR>Principal Chemical
Engineer<BR>Composites Engineering</FONT><FONT size=3> <BR><BR></FONT>
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<TD width="59%"><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><B>"Wayne Galligan"
<</B></FONT><A href="mailto:wgalligan@goodsonacura.com"><FONT
face=sans-serif color=blue
size=1><B><U>wgalligan@goodsonacura.com</U></B></FONT></A><FONT
face=sans-serif size=1><B>></B></FONT><FONT size=3> </FONT><FONT
face=sans-serif size=1><BR>Sent by: </FONT><A
href="mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org"><FONT face=sans-serif
color=blue size=1><U>discussion-request@nsrca.org</U></FONT></A><FONT
size=3> </FONT>
<P><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>01/12/2005 02:06 PM</FONT><FONT size=3>
</FONT><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><BR>Please respond to
discussion</FONT><FONT size=3> </FONT></P>
<TD width="37%"><FONT face=Arial size=1>
</FONT><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><BR> To:
<</FONT><A
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org"><FONT face=sans-serif color=blue
size=1><U>discussion@nsrca.org</U></FONT></A><FONT face=sans-serif
size=1>></FONT><FONT size=3> </FONT><FONT face=sans-serif
size=1><BR> cc:
</FONT><FONT size=3> </FONT><FONT face=sans-serif
size=1><BR> Subject:
Re: Judge Feedback</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><FONT
size=3><BR><BR></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><BR>Earl,</FONT><FONT size=3>
<BR> </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><BR>You have valid points as
does Keith. I have to agree with Keith here on a few points.
Mainly being that I practice by myself with little or no mentoring just
because its not there. SO... I learn more in 3 days at a contest then I
do in month of practice on my own. </FONT><FONT size=3>
<BR> </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><BR>Meet me and Keith in WACO some
weekend and we will gladly take you up on the mentoring thing. :-)
</FONT><FONT size=3> <BR> </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><BR>Your
friendly advanced participants. . ;-)</FONT><FONT size=3>
<BR> </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><BR>Wayne G</FONT><FONT size=3>
<BR>----- Original Message ----- <B><BR>From:</B> </FONT><A
href="mailto:ehaury@houston.rr.com"><FONT color=blue size=3><U>Earl
Haury</U></FONT></A><FONT size=3> <B><BR>To:</B> </FONT><A
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org"><FONT color=blue size=3><U>Discussion List,
NSRCA</U></FONT></A><FONT size=3> <B><BR>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 12, 2005
8:15 AM <B><BR>Subject:</B> Judge Feedback <BR></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2><BR>Here are some considerations regarding judges providing feedback to
competitors the we should address. </FONT><FONT size=3><BR> </FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2><BR>The key word is "competitors". Judges score individuals
performances in competitions that are held to ascertain the relative skills of
competitors to perform according to stated rules and descriptions. Being a
competition - one should assume that flyers present their patterns to the
unbiased judge sets and the let scores describe the ranking. </FONT><FONT
size=3><BR> </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=3><BR>The presumption is that
the competitors arrive prepared to compete. Those who have worked the hardest
on this preparation will (and should) generally excel. A pattern contest isn't
intended to be a training ground, but a review of achievement and peer
comparison. Judges who provide feedback have good intentions, but there are
questions that deserve attention. Isn't the job of the judge to provide the
correct score for each maneuver? Is it appropriate for the judge to
(mis)direct attention to make notations for post flight feedback? Will the
feedback be consistent to all competitors, or "buddy biased"? Is it fair to my
competition for judges to point out my errors so that I can correct them in
subsequent flights? If judges with largely different scores on a specific
maneuver offer feedback and disagree - then what? In the latter, will this
disagreement influence a ju</FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>dge to change
standards mid-round? Wha! t if some wish to discuss fe! edback, or argue with
it, at the expense of delaying the next flight? What if this
agitates the judges and you're next up? </FONT><FONT
size=3><BR> </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><BR>I realize that the gist of
the feedback issue is to benefit the newbie, but the above points apply here
also. We seem to accept that anyone, without practice or proper equipment or
preparation (reading the rules), should be able to fly successfully in some
form of "beginner" class. This doesn't happen - and we've fiddled with the
rules of the beginner class for years to little avail. Unfortunately, the
judges feedback at a contest isn't going to help the unprepared. What will
help is mentoring - but not from the judges chair! </FONT><FONT
size=3><BR> </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><BR>The best place to help the
newbie is at the practice field where everything can be addressed. Coach these
folks, provide feedback and assistance. Judge flights, take notes, and
critique. Help trim their airplane, be supportive with equipment maintenance,
etc. Get them prepared for those first contests, call for them, critique their
flights, evaluate their scores, help them in every way as a coach and friend,
and pattern will gain in numbers. Just don't do this from the judges chair -
judging is the only job then. </FONT><FONT size=3><BR> </FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2><BR>Earl</FONT><FONT size=3>
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