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<DIV><STRONG><FONT face="MS Sans Serif" size=2>I also concur 100% with Terry's
insight. I have been on the receiving end of appreciate comments from Don Lowe
at the nats. I had no clue, no coaches from home area why I was receiving such
terrible scores. Don pointed out some mistakes I was doing consistently and my
flying didn't improve at the Nats. I took what he said to heart because other
competitors asked what he said (and added who he was) so if he said that you
should address these things then you should listen. I did and didn't give up on
pattern. I was that disgusted because I was so busy flying I couldn't see the
errors that were causing my downgrades. I am thankful that transpired. I do
agree judges need to temper and be ever so careful not to give an unfair
advantage to some and not others.. But when u se someone stumbling so bad and at
bottom of heap and know they could improve with some basic advice it hurts not
to share so I do share.. </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face="MS Sans Serif" size=2> </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face="MS Sans Serif"
size=2>
del
<BR>
NSRCA - 473</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face="MS Sans Serif" size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face="MS Sans Serif" size=2></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT
face="MS Sans Serif" size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><B>From:</B> <A title=amad2terry@juno.com
href="mailto:amad2terry@juno.com">Terry Terrenoire</A> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 12, 2005 8:55
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Judge Feedback</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>While I certainly respect Earl's comments, he has a long history that
gives him some insite, I cold not disagree more. Taken as a whole they have
great merit, but i don't see them applying to the Sportsman level. I some
cases I have seen Sportsman entrants fly maneuvers the way they believed they
should look, but were completely wrong. most of the constructive criticisms I
have rendered from the chair were of a very general nature. "establish a line
between manuvers", "call box entries and exits" "if you get the wings level
before entry your loops will be easier to keep on path"</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I don't think the judes will be saying anything that causes conflict
between them when critiquing at the Sportsman level. All the comments I have
made to these pilots has been genuinely appreciated.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>We have to remember that a lot of them have noone at their home field to
help them. They may be trying this for the first time, and if we can give them
some good help, it may bring them back!!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Terry T.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 08:15:04 -0600 "Earl Haury" <<A
href="mailto:ehaury@houston.rr.com">ehaury@houston.rr.com</A>>
writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Here are some considerations regarding judges
providing feedback to competitors the we should address. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The key word is "competitors".
Judges score individuals performances in competitions that are held to
ascertain the relative skills of competitors to perform according to stated
rules and descriptions. Being a competition - one should assume that flyers
present their patterns to the unbiased judge sets and the let scores
describe the ranking. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><FONT size=+0>The presumption is that the
competitors arrive prepared to compete. Those who have worked the hardest on
this preparation will (and should) generally excel. A pattern contest isn't
intended to be a training ground, but a review of achievement and peer
comparison. Judges who provide feedback have good intentions, but there
are questions that deserve attention. Isn't the job of the judge to provide
the correct score for each maneuver? Is it appropriate for the judge
to (mis)direct attention to make notations for post flight
feedback? Will the feedback be consistent to all competitors, or "buddy
biased"? Is it fair to my competition for judges to point out my errors so
that I can correct them in subsequent flights? If judges with largely
different scores on a specific maneuver offer feedback and disagree - then
what? In the latter, will this disagreement influence a ju</FONT>dge to
change standards mid-round? What if some wish to discuss
feedback, or argue with it, at the expense of delaying the next
flight? What if this agitates the judges and you're next
up? </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I realize that the gist of the feedback issue
is to benefit the newbie, but the above points apply here also. We seem to
accept that anyone, without practice or proper equipment or preparation
(reading the rules), should be able to fly successfully in some form of
"beginner" class. This doesn't happen - and we've fiddled with the rules of
the beginner class for years to little avail. Unfortunately, the judges
feedback at a contest isn't going to help the unprepared. What will help is
mentoring - but not from the judges chair! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The best place to help the newbie is at the
practice field where everything can be addressed. Coach these folks, provide
feedback and assistance. Judge flights, take notes, and critique. Help trim
their airplane, be supportive with equipment maintenance, etc. Get them
prepared for those first contests, call for them, critique their flights,
evaluate their scores, help them in every way as a coach and friend, and
pattern will gain in numbers. Just don't do this from the judges chair -
judging is the only job then. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Earl</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
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