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<DIV><SPAN class=623454817-27012005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Agreed
with both of you.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=623454817-27012005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>What's
more, in the past, when it looked like a plane required too much right thrust,
and would developo the warts that have been described, I would reduce the right
thrust until pulls took the same amount of right rudder as pushes required left.
My guess is that that is the ideal right thrust setting from which to start
fiddling with the radio.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=623454817-27012005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Regards All,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=623454817-27012005>
<FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Dean</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </P>
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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> discussion-request@nsrca.org
[mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Nat
Penton<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:14 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Throt/ Rud<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bravo Bob Richards !</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=bob@toprudder.com href="mailto:bob@toprudder.com">Bob Richards</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 27, 2005 7:15
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Throt/ Rud</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Ed,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I am a very firm believer (no one will convince me otherwise) of
<STRONG>exactly</STRONG> what you describe. Slipstream effect is the whole
reason we put right thrust in our engines. It has NOTHING to do with torque,
<A
href="http://home.earthlink.net/~x-plane/FAQ-Theory-PFactor.html">P-factor</A>,
or <A href="http://www.cybercom.net/~copters/aero/gyro.html">gyroscopic
precession</A>.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The issue of transitioning from vertical to horizontal (either to
inverted or upright) is a gyroscopic precession issue. The best way to
counter that is to use lighter weight props turning at lower rpm --
less spinning mass and less gyroscopic effect.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>P-factor only exists at high angle of attacks, which does not happen in
a vertical climb. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Torque tries to roll the plane, and some schools of thought are that,
to counter the torque-induced roll, the left wing has to lift more than the
right, causing more induced drag on the left. While this may be true for a
lot of planes while taking off, this does not apply to pattern planes in a
vertical climb since both wing panels would be fighting the torque
equally.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Gyroscopic precession only occurs when the airplane is moving around
its pitch axis, as when pulling or pushing a corner. It is most noticeable
when the airplane is slow, since there is less aerodynamic stabilizing force
available from the rudder/fin. IMHO, no throttle-rudder mix is going
to correct this. It <STRONG>might</STRONG> be possible to mix elevator to
rudder, and enable/disable the mix based on throttle position.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>When I flew a Cap21 in pattern, I had to use left rudder when pulling
an inside corner at the top of square loops. I had to use a TON of right
rudder when pushing a corner, and this was with about 5 degrees of right
thrust.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>IMHO, learn to do it with your thumbs. Practice enough and it will
become automatic. Just my 2CW.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Bob R.</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>Edward Skorepa <edsko@xmission.com></I></B>
wrote:</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm confused too. I know, I know I shouldn't
argue with someone like chip but I believe the main reason we're putting
right thrust is an asymmetric vertical fin. On most conventional airplanes
the area above thrust line is much greater then area below. So, the
spiraling slip stream will hit the top portion of the vertical fin
from the left pushing tail to the right thus right thrust. When inverted,
the spiraling slip stream will hit vertical fin from the right
because fin is now on the opposite side and pushes tail to the left.
To straighten the flight path, we need now the left thrust which is
already there. During inverted push ups, why do we need to use left
rudder? The spiraling slip stream misses completely vertical fin and the
right (left when inverted) thrust is causing airplane to yaw left. If you
have a big gasser, turn on smoke, do inverted push up and watch where the
smoke goes. However, Chip's approach of fixing ! the inverted push
ups problem is quite interesting and I'll try it on my new bird I'm
working on right now.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>ed</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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