<DIV>I saw one at our local club very cool that it was so small. The guy said he flys it off his coffee table when its raining out......I think hes single.<BR><BR><B><I>Ron Van Putte <vanputte@cox.net></I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><BR>On Jan 27, 2005, at 12:21 PM, Keith Hoard wrote:<BR><BR>> I guess if you guys were REALLY serious about pattern models, you’d <BR>> design counter-rotating props for the engines. . .<BR><BR>Speaking about counter-rotating props: Have any of you seen the Hirobo <BR>Mini Lama RC Electric Helicopter? I'm talking about the non-tethered <BR>version. I was over in Pensacola a couple of evenings ago at a local <BR>high school gymnasium that Tony Stillman has arranged for the electric <BR>airplane pilot to fly in for a two hours on a weekday evening. Tony <BR>delivered one of these helicopters to Steve Rojecki. I watched as they <BR>removed the helicopter and transmitter from the shipping box, installed <BR>the LiPo battery (included) in the helicopter, snapped in a transmitter <BR>battery pack and turned the system on. Steve proceeded to take it off <BR>and fly it around. I was
impressed. I was even more impressed when <BR>Steve announced, "Who said flying a helicopter is hard? This is easy!" <BR>It turns out that he'd NEVER flown a helicopter before!<BR><BR>Ron Van Putte<BR><BR>> From: discussion-request@nsrca.org <BR>> [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Rcmaster199@aol.com<BR>> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:17 PM<BR>> To: discussion@nsrca.org<BR>> Subject: Re: Throt/ Rud<BR>><BR>> <BR>><BR>> Bob, this is exactly how I feel. Why not learn to use the sticks?<BR>><BR>> <BR>><BR>> On the money with P-Factor (not to be confused with K-factor) and GP <BR>> also. Slipstream is the key and it could be significantly straightened <BR>> by doing something similar to what Nat has done with the Xpress series <BR>> of models. Strakes surrounding the CG help reduce the effects. This <BR>> is a design feature tha belongs on all pattern models.
IMHO<BR>><BR>> <BR>><BR>> MattK<BR>><BR>> <BR>><BR>> In a message dated 1/27/2005 8:18:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>> bob@toprudder.com writes:<BR>><BR>> Ed,<BR>><BR>> <BR>><BR>> I am a very firm believer (no one will convince me otherwise) of <BR>> exactly what you describe. Slipstream effect is the whole reason we <BR>> put right thrust in our engines. It has NOTHING to do with torque, <BR>> P-factor, or gyroscopic precession.<BR>><BR>> <BR>><BR>> The issue of transitioning from vertical to horizontal (either to <BR>> inverted or upright) is a gyroscopic precession issue. The best way to <BR>> counter that is to use lighter weight props turning at lower rpm -- <BR>> less spinning mass and less gyroscopic effect.<BR>><BR>> <BR>><BR>> P-factor only exists at high angle of attacks, which does not happen <BR>> in a vertical climb.<BR>><BR>>
<BR>><BR>> Torque tries to roll the plane, and some schools of thought are that, <BR>> to counter the torque-induced roll, the left wing has to lift more <BR>> than the right, causing more induced drag on the left. While this may <BR>> be true for a lot of planes while taking off, this does not apply to <BR>> pattern planes in a vertical climb since both wing panels would be <BR>> fighting the torque equally.<BR>><BR>> <BR>><BR>> Gyroscopic precession only occurs when the airplane is moving around <BR>> its pitch axis, as when pulling or pushing a corner. It is most <BR>> noticeable when the airplane is slow, since there is less aerodynamic <BR>> stabilizing force available from the rudder/fin. IMHO, no <BR>> throttle-rudder mix is going to correct this. It might be possible to <BR>> mix elevator to rudder, and enable/disable the mix based on throttle <BR>> position.<BR>><BR>> <BR>><BR>> When I
flew a Cap21 in pattern, I had to use left rudder when pulling <BR>> an inside corner at the top of square loops. I had to use a TON of <BR>> right rudder when pushing a corner, and this was with about 5 degrees <BR>> of right thrust.<BR>><BR>> <BR>><BR>> IMHO, learn to do it with your thumbs. Practice enough and it will <BR>> become automatic. Just my 2CW.<BR>><BR>> <BR>><BR>> Bob R.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> Edward Skorepa <EDSKO@XMISSION.COM>wrote:<BR>><BR>> I'm confused too. I know, I know I shouldn't argue with someone like <BR>> chip but I believe the main reason we're putting right thrust is an <BR>> asymmetric vertical fin. On most conventional airplanes the area above <BR>> thrust line is much greater then area below. So, the spiraling slip <BR>> stream will hit the top portion of the vertical fin from the left <BR>> pushing tail to the right thus right thrust. When inverted, the <BR>>
spiraling slip stream will hit vertical fin from the right because fin <BR>> is now on the opposite side and pushes tail to the left. To <BR>> straighten the flight path, we need now the left thrust which is <BR>> already there. During inverted push ups, why do we need to use left <BR>> rudder? The spiraling slip stream misses completely vertical fin and <BR>> the right (left when inverted) thrust is causing airplane to yaw left. <BR>> If you have a big gasser, turn on smoke, do inverted push up and watch <BR>> where the smoke goes. However, Chip's approach of fixing the inverted <BR>> push ups problem is quite interesting and I'll try it on my new bird <BR>> I'm working on right now.<BR>><BR>> ed<BR>><BR>> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>