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Ed:<br>
I like what Mike McConville said: <br>
Somebody asked him how to do a blender. Mike said: "First, start with
someone elses airplane"...................Sort of says it all. Bill
Glaze<br>
<br>
Ed Alt wrote:
<blockquote cite="midBAY104-DAV21BFBCFEBA258E6A01BF1E87A0@phx.gbl"
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<div>Actually, I said something a bit incorrect about the blender, as
it eventually does become an autorotation, so it is in a stalled state
eventually. Anyway, if you haven't lost one yet you must be doing
something right! For the most part, if you are flying 3D, you will
bend or break airplanes more frequently than otherwise.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Ed</div>
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Original Message ----- </div>
<div
style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="mrandmrst@comcast.net" href="mailto:mrandmrst@comcast.net">Ken
Thompson III</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a title="discussion@nsrca.org" href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</a>
</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Friday, January 28, 2005 7:26 PM</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: Snao G's</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you Ed,</div>
<div>I stand corrected on the blender, now that you describe the
entry, I remember it, can't do it right, but I remember it. I guess
when I'm just out there, slammin' around the sky, I don't realize the
real stress on the airframe. I must be pretty lucky I haven't lost one
to breakage yet, at least in the air.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Ken</div>
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Original Message ----- </div>
<div
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<a title="Ed_Alt@hotmail.com" href="mailto:Ed_Alt@hotmail.com">Ed
Alt</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a title="discussion@nsrca.org" href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</a>
</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Friday, January 28, 2005 6:28 PM</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
[SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: Snao G's</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ken:</div>
<div>Depends on the pilot. Some do Walls at a fairly high
airspeed. I never did them at anything much more then around 40 mph
est, but that's a bunch of force right there. It stops in a big
hurry. I can only guess at the G's, but if you watch from the right
angle, you can see the wings bend a fair bit on a 40% model doing this.
Ditto with a Parachute - it just depends on what the pilot is willing
to attempt. Blenders aren't a stalled maneuver, they develop from a
rolling vertical downline, then at 3D rates you typically slam in full
down, full aileron one way, full rudder the other, then you typically
take out some aileron to flatten it out. I have seen airplanes come
completely apart, sometimes just crack the wing sheeting (sounds like a
rifle shot) or crack the fuselage doing a blender. I never let mine
develop for more than a couple of rolls at a low power setting coming
down. Too risky. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Usually Waterfals are started from a vertical hover and are
really tame. A really wild variation is a Waterfall started from full
power level, with a very rapid pitch-up to about 45 degrees as you yank
the power, then hit full down (3D rates ocourse) and knock some
throttle back in to get enough propwash over the tail to force it
around as it starts to go backwards (same direction really, but the
tail & nose positions are getting swapped). Timed right, it
virtually stops in place as it pivots around the pitch axis. It's
dramatic and you can immediately go into anything else like a 3D
roller, whatever, where a second ago you were clipping along at 90
mph. That's a wing tube bender if you overdo it. There's more tricks
and variations than this, but there is alot of really stressful stuff
in the so-called 3D maneuvers. I like EFD (Extended Flight Envelope,
better, but whatever.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Ed</div>
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<div
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Original Message ----- </div>
<div
style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="mrandmrst@comcast.net"
href="mailto:mrandmrst@comcast.net">Ken Thompson III</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a title="discussion@nsrca.org"
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Friday, January 28, 2005 5:57 PM</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [SPAM] Re: Snao G's</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Walls I can see the stress, however I understand that the
correct way to enter a wall is at 1/4 throttle or less. I'm not one of
those big ego guys, so correct me if I'm wrong.</div>
<div>Parachutes are more of a controlled fall, from a partial
wall up high, and Blenders begin from a stalled state. Of course when
you slam the throttle to push the plane through the Blender, that could
hurt a bunch.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Ken</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>----- Original Message ----- </div>
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<a title="Ed_Alt@hotmail.com" href="mailto:Ed_Alt@hotmail.com">Ed
Alt</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a title="discussion@nsrca.org"
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Friday, January 28, 2005 5:05 PM</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
[SPAM] Re: Snao G's</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yep, but the transition into it can be stressful. Stuff
like Walls, Parachutes, Blenders, certain brands of Waterfalls put
mucho strain in the airframe. </div>
<div>Ed</div>
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<div
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Original Message ----- </div>
<div
style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="mrandmrst@comcast.net"
href="mailto:mrandmrst@comcast.net">Ken Thompson III</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a title="discussion@nsrca.org"
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Friday, January 28, 2005 4:16 PM</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: Snao G's</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Matt,</div>
<div>I could be wrong, but isn't 3D, by definition, done in
a constant state of stall? Wouldn't that eliminate a lot of the high
G's in the maneuvers? I wouldn't think the airframe would be in as
stressed state, when the flying surface is depending on prop wash, not
air speed, to do it's thing.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Ken</div>
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Original Message ----- </div>
<div
style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="Rcmaster199@aol.com"
href="mailto:Rcmaster199@aol.com">Rcmaster199@aol.com</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a title="discussion@nsrca.org"
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Friday, January 28, 2005 1:46 PM</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: Snao G's</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<font id="role_document" color="#000000" face="Arial"
size="2">
<div>
<div>If this accelerometer is finding 13 G loads
generated by a Pattern model snap, a relatively low amount really, I
imagine that a 3D model set up for a full array of stunts has to be
experiencing double that at least.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Earl could you do any 3D type maneuvers and
measurements with the Yak?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Very informative discussion BTW, and may result in
improved more efficient building technique, read-- lightest for the
desired strength.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>thanks</div>
<div> </div>
<div>matt</div>
<div> </div>
<div>In a message dated 1/28/2005 1:32:35 PM Eastern
Standard Time, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">d.pappas@kodeos.com</a> writes:</div>
<blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid blue; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;"><font
style="background-color: transparent;" color="#000000" face="Arial"
size="2">
<div><span class="764412918-28012005">That's proof of
stall!</span></div>
<div><span class="764412918-28012005">If the G loading
rises suddenly, and then holds or droops continuously during the roll,
then it's probably an accelerated barrel.</span></div>
<div><span class="764412918-28012005">If the profile is
sudden rise, sudden drop to maybe 1/2, then onload, you have a real
snap.</span></div>
<div><span class="764412918-28012005"></span> </div>
<div><span class="764412918-28012005">Yia,</span></div>
<div><span class="764412918-28012005"> Dean</span></div>
<div> </div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</font> <br>
<font face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</font>
<br>
<font face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</font>
<br>
<font face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</font>
<br>
<font face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J.
07080</font> <br>
<font face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</font>
<br>
<font face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</font> <br>
<font face="Times New Roman"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">d.pappas@kodeos.com</a></font>
</p>
<blockquote style="margin-right: 0px;" dir="ltr">
<div class="OutlookMessageHeader" align="left"
dir="ltr"><font face="Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<br>
<b>From:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org">discussion-request@nsrca.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org">mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org</a>]<b>On Behalf Of </b><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Rcmaster199@aol.com">Rcmaster199@aol.com</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 28, 2005 11:45 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Snao G's<br>
<br>
</font></div>
<font color="#000000" face="Arial">
<div>
<div>Good point. Once in the stall, the model should
not see the same continued G load. Should drop dramatically. If the
plane doesn't stall to begin with, different story.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Matt</div>
<div> </div>
<div>In a message dated 1/28/2005 11:23:25 AM Eastern
Standard Time, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">d.pappas@kodeos.com</a> writes:</div>
<blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid blue; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;"><font
style="background-color: transparent;" color="#000000" face="Arial">
<div><span class="858241016-28012005"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Let me add another two cents worth ...</font></span></div>
<div><span class="858241016-28012005"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Earl,</font></span></div>
<div><span class="858241016-28012005"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial">What is the sampling rate on your data
logger?</font></span></div>
<div><span class="858241016-28012005"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Can you see if the maximum 13-Gs at 100
MPH was sustained for the entire half second or so that it took to
complete the snap,</font></span></div>
<div><span class="858241016-28012005"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial">or was it a short spike (like 0.1 second)
and then sustained at say half of that value, for the rest of the snap.</font></span></div>
<div><span class="858241016-28012005"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Of course, if the data logger samples
once a second, we have almost no way of knowing.</font></span></div>
<div><span class="858241016-28012005"></span> </div>
<div><span class="858241016-28012005"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Later,</font></span></div>
<div><span class="858241016-28012005"> <font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Dean</font></span></div>
</font></blockquote>
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