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<DIV>Thank you Ed,</DIV>
<DIV>I stand corrected on the blender, now that you describe the entry, I
remember it, can't do it right, but I remember it. I guess when I'm just
out there, slammin' around the sky, I don't realize the real stress on the
airframe. I must be pretty lucky I haven't lost one to breakage yet, at
least in the air.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ken</DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Ed_Alt@hotmail.com href="mailto:Ed_Alt@hotmail.com">Ed Alt</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 28, 2005 6:28
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: Snao
G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Ken:</DIV>
<DIV>Depends on the pilot. Some do Walls at a fairly high
airspeed. I never did them at anything much more then around 40 mph est,
but that's a bunch of force right there. It stops in a big hurry.
I can only guess at the G's, but if you watch from the right angle, you can
see the wings bend a fair bit on a 40% model doing this. Ditto with a
Parachute - it just depends on what the pilot is willing to attempt.
Blenders aren't a stalled maneuver, they develop from a rolling vertical
downline, then at 3D rates you typically slam in full down, full aileron one
way, full rudder the other, then you typically take out some aileron to
flatten it out. I have seen airplanes come completely apart, sometimes
just crack the wing sheeting (sounds like a rifle shot) or crack the fuselage
doing a blender. I never let mine develop for more than a couple of
rolls at a low power setting coming down. Too risky. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Usually Waterfals are started from a vertical hover and are really
tame. A really wild variation is a Waterfall started from full power
level, with a very rapid pitch-up to about 45 degrees as you yank the power,
then hit full down (3D rates ocourse) and knock some throttle back in to get
enough propwash over the tail to force it around as it starts to go backwards
(same direction really, but the tail & nose positions are getting
swapped). Timed right, it virtually stops in place as it pivots around
the pitch axis. It's dramatic and you can immediately go into anything
else like a 3D roller, whatever, where a second ago you were clipping along at
90 mph. That's a wing tube bender if you overdo it. There's more tricks
and variations than this, but there is alot of really stressful stuff in
the so-called 3D maneuvers. I like EFD (Extended Flight Envelope,
better, but whatever.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ed</DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mrandmrst@comcast.net href="mailto:mrandmrst@comcast.net">Ken
Thompson III</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 28, 2005 5:57
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [SPAM] Re: Snao G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Walls I can see the stress, however I understand that the correct way
to enter a wall is at 1/4 throttle or less. I'm not one of those big
ego guys, so correct me if I'm wrong.</DIV>
<DIV>Parachutes are more of a controlled fall, from a partial wall up high,
and Blenders begin from a stalled state. Of course when you slam the
throttle to push the plane through the Blender, that could hurt a
bunch.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ken</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Ed_Alt@hotmail.com href="mailto:Ed_Alt@hotmail.com">Ed Alt</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 28, 2005 5:05
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [SPAM] Re: Snao G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Yep, but the transition into it can be stressful. Stuff like
Walls, Parachutes, Blenders, certain brands of Waterfalls put mucho strain
in the airframe. </DIV>
<DIV>Ed</DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mrandmrst@comcast.net href="mailto:mrandmrst@comcast.net">Ken
Thompson III</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 28, 2005 4:16
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Snao G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Matt,</DIV>
<DIV>I could be wrong, but isn't 3D, by definition, done in a constant
state of stall? Wouldn't that eliminate a lot of the high G's in
the maneuvers? I wouldn't think the airframe would be in as
stressed state, when the flying surface is depending on prop wash, not
air speed, to do it's thing.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ken</DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Rcmaster199@aol.com
href="mailto:Rcmaster199@aol.com">Rcmaster199@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 28, 2005
1:46 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Snao G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT id=role_document face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV>
<DIV>If this accelerometer is finding 13 G loads generated by a
Pattern model snap, a relatively low amount really, I imagine that a
3D model set up for a full array of stunts has to be experiencing
double that at least.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Earl could you do any 3D type maneuvers and
measurements with the Yak?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Very informative discussion BTW, and may result in improved more
efficient building technique, read-- lightest for the desired
strength.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>thanks</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>matt</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 1/28/2005 1:32:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
d.pappas@kodeos.com writes:</DIV>
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style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>
<DIV><SPAN class=764412918-28012005>That's proof of
stall!</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=764412918-28012005>If the G loading rises suddenly,
and then holds or droops continuously during the roll, then it's
probably an accelerated barrel.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=764412918-28012005>If the profile is sudden rise,
sudden drop to maybe 1/2, then onload, you have a real
snap.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=764412918-28012005></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=764412918-28012005>Yia,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=764412918-28012005>
Dean</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </P>
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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
discussion-request@nsrca.org
[mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of
</B>Rcmaster199@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 28, 2005
11:45 AM<BR><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
Snao G's<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000000>
<DIV>
<DIV>Good point. Once in the stall, the model should not
see the same continued G load. Should drop
dramatically. If the plane doesn't stall to begin with,
different story.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Matt</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 1/28/2005 11:23:25 AM Eastern Standard
Time, d.pappas@kodeos.com writes:</DIV>
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style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Let me add another two cents worth
...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Earl,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>What is the sampling rate on your data
logger?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Can you see if the maximum 13-Gs at 100 MPH
was sustained for the entire half second or so that it took
to complete the snap,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>or was it a short spike (like 0.1 second)
and then sustained at say half of that value, for the rest
of the snap.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Of course, if the data logger samples once a
second, we have almost no way of knowing.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Later,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
class=858241016-28012005>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Dean</FONT></SPAN></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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