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<DIV>Actually, I said something a bit incorrect about the blender, as it
eventually does become an autorotation, so it is in a stalled state
eventually. Anyway, if you haven't lost one yet you must be doing
something right! For the most part, if you are flying 3D,
you will bend or break airplanes more frequently than otherwise.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ed</DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mrandmrst@comcast.net href="mailto:mrandmrst@comcast.net">Ken
Thompson III</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 28, 2005 7:26
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: Snao
G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Thank you Ed,</DIV>
<DIV>I stand corrected on the blender, now that you describe the entry, I
remember it, can't do it right, but I remember it. I guess when I'm just
out there, slammin' around the sky, I don't realize the real stress on the
airframe. I must be pretty lucky I haven't lost one to breakage yet, at
least in the air.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ken</DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Ed_Alt@hotmail.com href="mailto:Ed_Alt@hotmail.com">Ed Alt</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 28, 2005 6:28
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: Snao
G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Ken:</DIV>
<DIV>Depends on the pilot. Some do Walls at a fairly high
airspeed. I never did them at anything much more then around 40 mph
est, but that's a bunch of force right there. It stops in a big
hurry. I can only guess at the G's, but if you watch from the right
angle, you can see the wings bend a fair bit on a 40% model doing this.
Ditto with a Parachute - it just depends on what the pilot is willing to
attempt. Blenders aren't a stalled maneuver, they develop from a
rolling vertical downline, then at 3D rates you typically slam in full down,
full aileron one way, full rudder the other, then you typically take out
some aileron to flatten it out. I have seen airplanes come completely
apart, sometimes just crack the wing sheeting (sounds like a rifle shot) or
crack the fuselage doing a blender. I never let mine develop for more
than a couple of rolls at a low power setting coming down. Too
risky. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Usually Waterfals are started from a vertical hover and are really
tame. A really wild variation is a Waterfall started from full power
level, with a very rapid pitch-up to about 45 degrees as you yank the power,
then hit full down (3D rates ocourse) and knock some throttle back in to get
enough propwash over the tail to force it around as it starts to go
backwards (same direction really, but the tail & nose positions are
getting swapped). Timed right, it virtually stops in place as it
pivots around the pitch axis. It's dramatic and you can immediately go
into anything else like a 3D roller, whatever, where a second ago you were
clipping along at 90 mph. That's a wing tube bender if you overdo it.
There's more tricks and variations than this, but there is alot of
really stressful stuff in the so-called 3D maneuvers. I like EFD
(Extended Flight Envelope, better, but whatever.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ed</DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mrandmrst@comcast.net href="mailto:mrandmrst@comcast.net">Ken
Thompson III</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 28, 2005 5:57
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [SPAM] Re: Snao
G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Walls I can see the stress, however I understand that the correct way
to enter a wall is at 1/4 throttle or less. I'm not one of those big
ego guys, so correct me if I'm wrong.</DIV>
<DIV>Parachutes are more of a controlled fall, from a partial wall up
high, and Blenders begin from a stalled state. Of course when you
slam the throttle to push the plane through the Blender, that could hurt a
bunch.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ken</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Ed_Alt@hotmail.com href="mailto:Ed_Alt@hotmail.com">Ed Alt</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 28, 2005 5:05
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [SPAM] Re: Snao G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Yep, but the transition into it can be stressful. Stuff like
Walls, Parachutes, Blenders, certain brands of Waterfalls put mucho
strain in the airframe. </DIV>
<DIV>Ed</DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mrandmrst@comcast.net href="mailto:mrandmrst@comcast.net">Ken
Thompson III</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 28, 2005
4:16 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Snao G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Matt,</DIV>
<DIV>I could be wrong, but isn't 3D, by definition, done in a constant
state of stall? Wouldn't that eliminate a lot of the high G's in
the maneuvers? I wouldn't think the airframe would be in as
stressed state, when the flying surface is depending on prop wash, not
air speed, to do it's thing.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ken</DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Rcmaster199@aol.com
href="mailto:Rcmaster199@aol.com">Rcmaster199@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 28, 2005
1:46 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Snao G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT id=role_document face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>
<DIV>
<DIV>If this accelerometer is finding 13 G loads generated by a
Pattern model snap, a relatively low amount really, I imagine that a
3D model set up for a full array of stunts has to be experiencing
double that at least.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Earl could you do any 3D type maneuvers and
measurements with the Yak?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Very informative discussion BTW, and may result in improved
more efficient building technique, read-- lightest for the desired
strength.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>thanks</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>matt</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 1/28/2005 1:32:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
d.pappas@kodeos.com writes:</DIV>
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style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>
<DIV><SPAN class=764412918-28012005>That's proof of
stall!</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=764412918-28012005>If the G loading rises
suddenly, and then holds or droops continuously during the roll,
then it's probably an accelerated barrel.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=764412918-28012005>If the profile is sudden rise,
sudden drop to maybe 1/2, then onload, you have a real
snap.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=764412918-28012005></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=764412918-28012005>Yia,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=764412918-28012005>
Dean</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT>
<BR><FONT face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT>
<BR><FONT face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT>
<BR><FONT face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
discussion-request@nsrca.org
[mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of
</B>Rcmaster199@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 28, 2005
11:45 AM<BR><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Snao G's<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000000>
<DIV>
<DIV>Good point. Once in the stall, the model should not
see the same continued G load. Should drop
dramatically. If the plane doesn't stall to begin with,
different story.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Matt</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 1/28/2005 11:23:25 AM Eastern Standard
Time, d.pappas@kodeos.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial
color=#000000>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Let me add another two cents worth
...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Earl,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>What is the sampling rate on your data
logger?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Can you see if the maximum 13-Gs at 100 MPH
was sustained for the entire half second or so that it
took to complete the snap,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>or was it a short spike (like 0.1 second)
and then sustained at say half of that value, for the
rest of the snap.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Of course, if the data logger samples once a
second, we have almost no way of knowing.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Later,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
class=858241016-28012005>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Dean</FONT></SPAN></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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