<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2523" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY text=#000000 bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sure does!</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=billglaze@triad.rr.com href="mailto:billglaze@triad.rr.com">Bill
Glaze</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 29, 2005 9:55
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM]
Re: Snao G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Ed:<BR>I like what Mike McConville said: <BR>Somebody asked him
how to do a blender. Mike said: "First, start with someone elses
airplane"...................Sort of says it all. Bill Glaze<BR><BR>Ed
Alt wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=midBAY104-DAV21BFBCFEBA258E6A01BF1E87A0@phx.gbl
type="cite"><META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2523" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV>Actually, I said something a bit incorrect about the blender, as it
eventually does become an autorotation, so it is in a stalled state
eventually. Anyway, if you haven't lost one yet you must be doing
something right! For the most part, if you are
flying 3D, you will bend or break airplanes more frequently
than otherwise.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ed</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mrandmrst@comcast.net href="mailto:mrandmrst@comcast.net">Ken
Thompson III</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, January 28, 2005 7:26 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: Snao G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Thank you Ed,</DIV>
<DIV>I stand corrected on the blender, now that you describe the entry, I
remember it, can't do it right, but I remember it. I guess when I'm
just out there, slammin' around the sky, I don't realize the real stress
on the airframe. I must be pretty lucky I haven't lost one to
breakage yet, at least in the air.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ken</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Ed_Alt@hotmail.com href="mailto:Ed_Alt@hotmail.com">Ed Alt</A>
</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, January 28, 2005 6:28 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
[SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: Snao G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Ken:</DIV>
<DIV>Depends on the pilot. Some do Walls at a fairly high
airspeed. I never did them at anything much more then around 40
mph est, but that's a bunch of force right there. It stops in a
big hurry. I can only guess at the G's, but if you watch from the
right angle, you can see the wings bend a fair bit on a 40% model doing
this. Ditto with a Parachute - it just depends on what the pilot is
willing to attempt. Blenders aren't a stalled maneuver, they
develop from a rolling vertical downline, then at 3D rates you typically
slam in full down, full aileron one way, full rudder the other, then you
typically take out some aileron to flatten it out. I have seen
airplanes come completely apart, sometimes just crack the wing sheeting
(sounds like a rifle shot) or crack the fuselage doing a blender.
I never let mine develop for more than a couple of rolls at a low power
setting coming down. Too risky. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Usually Waterfals are started from a vertical hover and are really
tame. A really wild variation is a Waterfall started from full
power level, with a very rapid pitch-up to about 45 degrees as you yank
the power, then hit full down (3D rates ocourse) and knock some throttle
back in to get enough propwash over the tail to force it around as it
starts to go backwards (same direction really, but the tail & nose
positions are getting swapped). Timed right, it virtually stops in
place as it pivots around the pitch axis. It's dramatic and you
can immediately go into anything else like a 3D roller, whatever, where
a second ago you were clipping along at 90 mph. That's a wing tube
bender if you overdo it. There's more tricks and variations than
this, but there is alot of really stressful stuff in the so-called 3D
maneuvers. I like EFD (Extended Flight Envelope, better, but
whatever.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ed</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mrandmrst@comcast.net href="mailto:mrandmrst@comcast.net">Ken
Thompson III</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, January 28, 2005 5:57 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [SPAM] Re: Snao G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Walls I can see the stress, however I understand that the correct
way to enter a wall is at 1/4 throttle or less. I'm not one of
those big ego guys, so correct me if I'm wrong.</DIV>
<DIV>Parachutes are more of a controlled fall, from a partial wall up
high, and Blenders begin from a stalled state. Of course when
you slam the throttle to push the plane through the Blender, that
could hurt a bunch.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ken</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Ed_Alt@hotmail.com href="mailto:Ed_Alt@hotmail.com">Ed
Alt</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, January 28, 2005 5:05 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
[SPAM] Re: Snao G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Yep, but the transition into it can be stressful. Stuff
like Walls, Parachutes, Blenders, certain brands of Waterfalls put
mucho strain in the airframe. </DIV>
<DIV>Ed</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mrandmrst@comcast.net
href="mailto:mrandmrst@comcast.net">Ken Thompson III</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, January 28, 2005 4:16 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Snao G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Matt,</DIV>
<DIV>I could be wrong, but isn't 3D, by definition, done in a
constant state of stall? Wouldn't that eliminate a lot of
the high G's in the maneuvers? I wouldn't think the airframe
would be in as stressed state, when the flying surface is
depending on prop wash, not air speed, to do it's thing.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ken</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Rcmaster199@aol.com
href="mailto:Rcmaster199@aol.com">Rcmaster199@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, January 28, 2005 1:46 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Snao G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT id=role_document face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>
<DIV>
<DIV>If this accelerometer is finding 13 G loads
generated by a Pattern model snap, a relatively low amount
really, I imagine that a 3D model set up for a full array of
stunts has to be experiencing double that at least.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Earl could you do any 3D type maneuvers and
measurements with the Yak?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Very informative discussion BTW, and may result in improved
more efficient building technique, read-- lightest for the
desired strength.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>thanks</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>matt</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 1/28/2005 1:32:35 PM Eastern Standard
Time, <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">d.pappas@kodeos.com</A>
writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>
<DIV><SPAN class=764412918-28012005>That's proof of
stall!</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=764412918-28012005>If the G loading rises
suddenly, and then holds or droops continuously during the
roll, then it's probably an accelerated barrel.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=764412918-28012005>If the profile is sudden
rise, sudden drop to maybe 1/2, then onload, you have a real
snap.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=764412918-28012005></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=764412918-28012005>Yia,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=764412918-28012005>
Dean</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT>
<BR><FONT face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT>
<BR><FONT face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT>
<BR><FONT face="Times New Roman"><A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">d.pappas@kodeos.com</A></FONT>
</P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> <A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org">discussion-request@nsrca.org</A>
[<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org">mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org</A>]<B>On
Behalf Of </B><A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:Rcmaster199@aol.com">Rcmaster199@aol.com</A><BR><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, January 28, 2005 11:45 AM<BR><B>To:</B> <A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Snao G's<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial
color=#000000>
<DIV>
<DIV>Good point. Once in the stall, the model should not
see the same continued G load. Should drop
dramatically. If the plane doesn't stall to begin with,
different story.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Matt</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 1/28/2005 11:23:25 AM Eastern
Standard Time, <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">d.pappas@kodeos.com</A>
writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial
color=#000000>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Let me add another two cents worth
...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Earl,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>What is the sampling rate on your data
logger?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Can you see if the maximum 13-Gs at 100 MPH
was sustained for the entire half second or so that
it took to complete the snap,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>or was it a short spike (like 0.1
second) and then sustained at say half of that
value, for the rest of the snap.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Of course, if the data logger samples once a
second, we have almost no way of
knowing.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Later,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
class=858241016-28012005>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Dean</FONT></SPAN></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>