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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Uhmmm, wait a minute here...</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mrandmrst@comcast.net href="mailto:mrandmrst@comcast.net">Ken
Thompson III</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 29, 2005 10:26
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM]
Re: [SPAM] Re: Snao G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hey Ed,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Can I borrow one of your planes to practice
with? hehehe</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ken</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Ed_Alt@hotmail.com href="mailto:Ed_Alt@hotmail.com">Ed Alt</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 29, 2005 10:15
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM]
Re: [SPAM] Re: Snao G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sure does!</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=billglaze@triad.rr.com href="mailto:billglaze@triad.rr.com">Bill
Glaze</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 29, 2005 9:55
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re:
[SPAM] Re: Snao G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Ed:<BR>I like what Mike McConville said: <BR>Somebody asked
him how to do a blender. Mike said: "First, start with someone
elses airplane"...................Sort of says it all. Bill
Glaze<BR><BR>Ed Alt wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=midBAY104-DAV21BFBCFEBA258E6A01BF1E87A0@phx.gbl
type="cite">
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<DIV>Actually, I said something a bit incorrect about the blender, as it
eventually does become an autorotation, so it is in a stalled state
eventually. Anyway, if you haven't lost one yet you must be doing
something right! For the most part, if you are
flying 3D, you will bend or break airplanes more frequently
than otherwise.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ed</DIV>
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<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mrandmrst@comcast.net href="mailto:mrandmrst@comcast.net">Ken
Thompson III</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, January 28, 2005 7:26 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: Snao G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Thank you Ed,</DIV>
<DIV>I stand corrected on the blender, now that you describe the
entry, I remember it, can't do it right, but I remember it. I
guess when I'm just out there, slammin' around the sky, I don't
realize the real stress on the airframe. I must be pretty lucky
I haven't lost one to breakage yet, at least in the air.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ken</DIV>
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<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Ed_Alt@hotmail.com href="mailto:Ed_Alt@hotmail.com">Ed
Alt</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, January 28, 2005 6:28 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
[SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: Snao G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Ken:</DIV>
<DIV>Depends on the pilot. Some do Walls at a fairly high
airspeed. I never did them at anything much more then around
40 mph est, but that's a bunch of force right there. It stops
in a big hurry. I can only guess at the G's, but if you watch
from the right angle, you can see the wings bend a fair bit on a 40%
model doing this. Ditto with a Parachute - it just depends on what
the pilot is willing to attempt. Blenders aren't a stalled
maneuver, they develop from a rolling vertical downline, then at 3D
rates you typically slam in full down, full aileron one way, full
rudder the other, then you typically take out some aileron to
flatten it out. I have seen airplanes come completely apart,
sometimes just crack the wing sheeting (sounds like a rifle shot) or
crack the fuselage doing a blender. I never let mine develop
for more than a couple of rolls at a low power setting coming
down. Too risky. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Usually Waterfals are started from a vertical hover and are
really tame. A really wild variation is a Waterfall started
from full power level, with a very rapid pitch-up to about 45
degrees as you yank the power, then hit full down (3D rates ocourse)
and knock some throttle back in to get enough propwash over the tail
to force it around as it starts to go backwards (same direction
really, but the tail & nose positions are getting
swapped). Timed right, it virtually stops in place as it
pivots around the pitch axis. It's dramatic and you can
immediately go into anything else like a 3D roller, whatever, where
a second ago you were clipping along at 90 mph. That's a wing
tube bender if you overdo it. There's more tricks and
variations than this, but there is alot of really stressful
stuff in the so-called 3D maneuvers. I like EFD (Extended
Flight Envelope, better, but whatever.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ed</DIV>
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<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mrandmrst@comcast.net
href="mailto:mrandmrst@comcast.net">Ken Thompson III</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, January 28, 2005 5:57 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [SPAM] Re: Snao G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Walls I can see the stress, however I understand that the
correct way to enter a wall is at 1/4 throttle or less. I'm
not one of those big ego guys, so correct me if I'm wrong.</DIV>
<DIV>Parachutes are more of a controlled fall, from a partial wall
up high, and Blenders begin from a stalled state. Of course
when you slam the throttle to push the plane through the Blender,
that could hurt a bunch.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ken</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Ed_Alt@hotmail.com href="mailto:Ed_Alt@hotmail.com">Ed
Alt</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, January 28, 2005 5:05 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
[SPAM] Re: Snao G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Yep, but the transition into it can be stressful.
Stuff like Walls, Parachutes, Blenders, certain brands of
Waterfalls put mucho strain in the airframe. </DIV>
<DIV>Ed</DIV>
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<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mrandmrst@comcast.net
href="mailto:mrandmrst@comcast.net">Ken Thompson III</A>
</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, January 28, 2005 4:16 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Snao G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Matt,</DIV>
<DIV>I could be wrong, but isn't 3D, by definition, done in a
constant state of stall? Wouldn't that eliminate a lot
of the high G's in the maneuvers? I wouldn't think the
airframe would be in as stressed state, when the flying
surface is depending on prop wash, not air speed, to do it's
thing.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ken</DIV>
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<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Rcmaster199@aol.com
href="mailto:Rcmaster199@aol.com">Rcmaster199@aol.com</A>
</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, January 28, 2005 1:46 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Snao G's</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT id=role_document face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV>
<DIV>If this accelerometer is finding 13 G loads
generated by a Pattern model snap, a relatively low
amount really, I imagine that a 3D model set up for a full
array of stunts has to be experiencing double that at
least.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Earl could you do any 3D type maneuvers and
measurements with the Yak?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Very informative discussion BTW, and may result in
improved more efficient building technique, read-- lightest
for the desired strength.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>thanks</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>matt</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 1/28/2005 1:32:35 PM Eastern
Standard Time, <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">d.pappas@kodeos.com</A>
writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV><SPAN class=764412918-28012005>That's proof of
stall!</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=764412918-28012005>If the G loading rises
suddenly, and then holds or droops continuously during the
roll, then it's probably an accelerated
barrel.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=764412918-28012005>If the profile is
sudden rise, sudden drop to maybe 1/2, then onload, you
have a real snap.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=764412918-28012005></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=764412918-28012005>Yia,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=764412918-28012005>
Dean</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT>
<BR><FONT face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design
Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Times New Roman">Kodeos
Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Times New Roman">111
Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT>
<BR><FONT face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817
phone</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Times New Roman">(908)
222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Times New Roman"><A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">d.pappas@kodeos.com</A></FONT>
</P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org">discussion-request@nsrca.org</A>
[<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org">mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org</A>]<B>On
Behalf Of </B><A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:Rcmaster199@aol.com">Rcmaster199@aol.com</A><BR><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, January 28, 2005 11:45 AM<BR><B>To:</B> <A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Snao G's<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial
color=#000000>
<DIV>
<DIV>Good point. Once in the stall, the model should not
see the same continued G load. Should
drop dramatically. If the plane doesn't stall to
begin with, different story.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Matt</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 1/28/2005 11:23:25 AM Eastern
Standard Time, <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">d.pappas@kodeos.com</A>
writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial
color=#000000>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Let me add another two cents worth
...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Earl,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>What is the sampling rate on your data
logger?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Can you see if the maximum 13-Gs at 100
MPH was sustained for the entire half second or
so that it took to complete the
snap,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>or was it a short spike (like 0.1
second) and then sustained at say half of that
value, for the rest of the snap.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Of course, if the data logger samples
once a second, we have almost no way of
knowing.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
class=858241016-28012005></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=858241016-28012005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Later,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
class=858241016-28012005>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Dean</FONT></SPAN></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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