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<DIV>Interesting thread. Predictable responses too, in some cases.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Well, here's my 2 cents. I've had the opportunity to play with this for a
while now, and I simply don't think it matters that much. The plane I'm
currently flying has the ailerons cut all the way through the tips, with small
counterbalances. This is the best snapping plane I have ever flown. It's so
predictable it's ridiculous. The wings are light, and the tips are smaller than
most as well. Matt is right on about wing weight, it will affect snap dampening
MUCH more than your aileron cut out.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I did notice some VERY SLIGHT aileron centering issues lately, but didn't
notice at all until about 800 flights. This plane is all wood, so maybe that has
some bearing as well, servos have never been an issue thus far. I think 800+
flights is acceptable.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I simply don't believe it's an important design criteria at all. Not under
the current patterns anyway. If you like tips, then use the tips. If you like
them cut through the tips, do them that way. If you're burning up servos, you
have other issues than whether or not your aileron is cut through the tip. Look
elsewhere for a solution.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Or just do whatever everyone else does =)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>-Mike</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Rcmaster199@aol.com
href="mailto:Rcmaster199@aol.com">Rcmaster199@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, January 30, 2005 2:24
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [SPAM] Re: No fixed tips?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT id=role_document face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV>
<DIV>I have done it both ways and notice virtually identical performance as
long as the aileron areas (as a percentage and planform) are unchanged. What I
have found stops the snap accurately and repeatably is a light wing. Have not
required servo pots in either type after 100's of flights. Don't know why some
are losing servos after a few flights, but do know what works for me.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Commercial jets flying at 600 mph and models flying at 100mph, don't have
much in common.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>MattK</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 1/30/2005 12:30:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,
pattern4u@comcast.net writes:</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The current theory is that the ailerons all the
way out to the tips, stop the snap more accurately.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Eric.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mailto:billglaze@triad.rr.com
href="mailto:billglaze@triad.rr.com">Bill Glaze</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=mailto:discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, January 30, 2005 11:33
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: No fixed tips?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Again, with the full-size: Notice that such
luminaries as Boeing, Douglas, et.al don't run their ailerons to the tips,
but instead stop short? As Troy and Doug have stated,
the wingtip vortices generated are the reason. I had a long
discussion with Dick Hanson about this, and he stated that "it didn't make
any difference on our models." Well, from what Troy has discovered
about aileron pots, it seems it DOES make a difference.<BR>Bill
Glaze<BR><BR>Troy A. Newman wrote:<BR>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>They don't fly the same....and the aileron
thru the tip thing wears out servo pots faster. I flew a model this past
summer and it went thru aileron servo pots in 50 flights. I normally get
well over 100-125 flights. And this was a wood model so the vibration
was better damped than a composite fuse.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wing tips have lots of turbulence coming
off of them...then stick a aileron in this turbulence. NOPE not the best
from an engineering standpoint. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The answer guys and manufacturers give is
it snaps better. My answer is design a good wing and it will snap
better. Copy a good wing and it will snap better. The ailerons
become more effective with the area at the tip....but I don't feel it
helps flight performance. Aileron thru the tip is much easier and
faster to build than a boxed in version. on the ARFy stuff its
cheaper...this is the biggest reason I think its done.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As for elevators without tips there are no
references. And the same things apply</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>All my models have them boxed and will have
them boxed in.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Troy</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mailto:twtaylor@ftc-i.net
href="mailto:twtaylor@ftc-i.net">Tim Taylor</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=mailto:discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Saturday, January 29, 2005 7:46 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
No fixed tips?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>No fixed tips at the end of the wing/stab
seems to be the rage. Any real reason for this? I really don't care
for this very much as it makes it harder to make sure your trim is
right and the elev half's
meet.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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