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<DIV>Pete,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'm familiar with the "claim" concept, and the dollar limit idea.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Questions I have -</DIV>
<DIV>-How does one deal with used equipment? Much of the top of the line stuff from the top fliers gets recycled to flyers in the lower classes - I know in the northeast alone that myself, Don Szczur, Eric Henderson, George Asteris, Earl Vincent, and Joe Lachowski (to name a few) have all sold planes were capable of flying at the highest levels to Sportsman and Intermediate pilots - some of the planes were well used and bare bones (relatively cheap) while some were backup planes that were close to new and pretty much RTF (relatively expensive).</DIV>
<DIV>-How do you set the price limit - ie, no matter what price limit you set, somebody will always want the number raised .5%, or 2%, or 10% because "your" arbitrary price limit is "needlessly" shutting out some really good equipment combinations that would otherwise allow more people into the event (gee, sounds a lot like the discussion on weight limit).</DIV>
<DIV>-Do "professional" building fees get included in airplane cost?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>BTW - it might be harder than you think to get "face time" in some of the major publications - like Model Aviation - pattern used to get more coverage - but it has dropped (probably proportionate to the reduction in our numbers) because the magazines view the pattern group as a small demographic and devote what they consider to be an appropriate amount of coverage. Best way to combat this is too support magazines that support pattern - like FM - aka Mike Ramsey and Dean Pappas on this list.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Dave Lockhart</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR><BR>> From an outsiders point of view Eric hit the nail on the head. If you don't <BR>> get some "Face Time" the masses are not going to notice you. The NSRCA has a <BR>> website and it would be easy enough to post some WMV files out there for <BR>> download and make sure there are ads and articles in Model Aviation at the <BR>> least and more mainstream magazines if possible. <BR>> <BR>> As for the debate about rules changes, the biggest stumbling block you have <BR>> is the perceived need for a full blown pattern ship to even compete in <BR>> sportsman. I know....I went and bought one before I did any homework on the <BR>> issue. If you want people to be more comfortable. put a spending cap on the <BR>> gear you can use in sportsman like some auto race organizations do with <BR>> "Claimer" classes. You can only spend X amount and base it on list prices. <BR>> If you can only spend $600 to $700 on a plane and engine you just knocked <BR>> most of the high dollar stuff out of the running. Pick an ARF any ARF and a <BR>> good engine and there is $600 +/-. <BR>> <BR>> Take it for what it is. Just one guy's opinion. <BR>> <BR>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: "Grow Pattern" <PATTERN4U@COMCAST.NET><BR>> To: <DISCUSSION@NSRCA.ORG><BR>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 10:01 <BR>> Subject: Rules don't grow sports! <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> > It's not the "driving away" that is the problem. It may seem that way, but <BR>> > attrition is normal in any sport. The really big problem is "attraction". <BR>> > <BR>> > I keep a close eye on the ages of the folks joining and the ages of the <BR>> > folks leaving. the leaving is pretty normal. The joining age group is very <BR>> > sparse in the below 20, and the 20-30 range. <BR>> > <BR>> > This tree has no soil aroun
d its roots..... <BR>> > <BR>> > I would submit to you all that what we debate over size, weight etc. has <BR>> > very little to do with whether a new person joins or not. If you are new, <BR>> > you tend to accept the rules as the challenge, and go fly. You have no <BR>> > history so are not that concerned. There are much brighter lights gaining <BR>> > your attention, not least of which is the thrill of competing. <BR>> > <BR>> > What is more critical than any rule is the complete lack of promotional <BR>> > material, lack of tools for our VP's and members to use to promote our <BR>> > sport. You don't even have a handout/brochure any more. No video to do a <BR>> > "show and tell" at a club night. No formula for growth at all. <BR>> > <BR>> > Imagine if all of the effort that we put into debating a rule was used to <BR>> > put your teeth into something that we could all use out there at the WRAM <BR>> > or Toledo show. Imagine flight demo-tapes running in continuous loops, <BR>> > Aresti diagrams hanging from the walls, THEN wake up to the reality of <BR>> > running the judging tape at your booth.... <BR>> > <BR>> > I know and acknowledge that there are some individual points of light out <BR>> > there where great work has been done, but it is not a concerted effort or <BR>> > coordinated NSRCA plan, or intent. <BR>> > <BR>> > It really is time to get the NSRCA galvanized in to some real activities <BR>> > for growth. <BR>> > <BR>> > In publishing we say "Publish or perish!. In a sport it is "PROMOTE or <BR>> > PERISH!" <BR>> > <BR>> > Regards, <BR>> > <BR>> > Eric. <BR>> > <BR>> > ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > From: "Del K. Rykert" <DRYKERT2@ROCHESTER.RR.COM><BR>> > To: <DISCUSSION@NSRCA.ORG><BR>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 9:29 AM <BR>> > Subject: Re: *SPAM* Re: Rules Surve
y <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >> Show me the changes in last 20 years that hasn't also turned some <BR>> >> away...? One of the reason not as many participate as once did... Leave <BR>> >> it alone unless you want to drive more away. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> del <BR>> >> nsrca 473 <BR>> >> <BR>> >> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> >> From: "Wayne Galligan" <WGALLIGAN@GOODSONACURA.COM><BR>> >> To: <DISCUSSION@NSRCA.ORG><BR>> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 8:29 AM <BR>> >> Subject: Re: *SPAM* Re: Rules Survey <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >>> Nat, <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> Your right... look at the last three years at the Nats and what took top <BR>> >>> honors in the masters class.....an ARF that cost less then $600. <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> WG <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> >>> From: "Nat Penton" <NATPENTON@CENTURYTEL.NET><BR>> >>> To: <DISCUSSION@NSRCA.ORG><BR>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 7:21 PM <BR>> >>> Subject: Re: *SPAM* Re: Rules Survey <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>>> Some of you are over estimating the importance of the airplane and <BR>> >>>> underestimating the potential of the pilot. Nat <BR>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> >>>> From: "Bill Southwell" <BNBSOUTHWELL@BELLSOUTH.NET><BR>> >>>> To: <DISCUSSION@NSRCA.ORG><BR>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 8:56 PM <BR>> >>>> Subject: Re: *SPAM* Re: Rules Survey <BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>> > Tom how so? If there are available engines that actually hold up but <BR>> >>> are <BR>> >>>> > a bit more porky....but also a lot cheaper to own both in in
tial <BR>> >>> purchase <BR>> >>>> > and in up keep how can it lead to a more expensive airplane. Cost of <BR>> >>>> > the <BR>> >>>> > present designs are due to the materials and mathods of production <BR>> >>>> > required tokeep the weight down. A little more room would make more <BR>> >>>> > pedestrian material like balsa , ply. and foam to come back or at <BR>> >>>> > least <BR>> >>>> > make the average builder have hope. <BR>> >>>> > <BR>> >>>> > <BR>> >>>> > <BR>> >>>> > <BR>> >>>> > <BR>> >>>> > Tom Shaw wrote: <BR>> >>>> > <BR>> >>>> >> You guys need to leave well enough alone. With the unlimited <BR>> >>>> >> engines a <BR>> >>>> >> higher weight limit is just going to ecourage larger more expenseive <BR>> >>>> >> airplanes. That will amount to fewer flyers. <BR>> >>>> >> <BR>> >>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> >>>> >> *From:* Gray E Fowler <mailto:gfowler@raytheon.com><BR>> >>>> >> *To:* discussion@nsrca.org <mailto:discussion@nsrca.org><BR>> >>>> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 08, 2005 4:25 PM <BR>> >>>> >> *Subject:* RE: *SPAM* Re: Rules Survey <BR>> >>>> >> <BR>> >>>> >> <BR>> >>>> >> Here comes the dreaded weight debate again.... <BR>> >>>> >> <BR>> >>>> >> Consider this-Anyone in the upper level classes would not be too <BR>> >>>> >> smart to have a plane heavier than it needs to be. But, lets <BR>> >>>> >> pretend there is a hot new Sportsman named uh lets see..... <BR>> >&
gt;>> >> Chuck. <BR>> >>>> >> Chuck tears up 401 after 3 contests, and he is flying his best <BR>> >>>> >> airplane that most FAI guys would consider a toy (and I do not <BR>> >>>> >> mean the "foamie toys" pictured in last months Model Aviation <BR>> >>>> >> being held by a guy named "Chuck") and so moving up to <BR>> >>>> >> Intermediate halfway thru his first season, last 3 contests were <BR>> >>>> >> quite a challenge, BUT he places in 402 anyway! <BR>> >>>> >> In the off season, he saves his pennies, keeps his wife happy <BR>> >>>> >> and <BR>> >>>> >> gets a used REAL pattern plane, built by someone who has a <BR>> >>>> >> slight <BR>> >>>> >> heavy hand, and alas it weighs 11.5 lbs. Now this here Chuck is <BR>> >>>> >> good and pumped up and I would place money that this theoretical <BR>> >>>> >> person could place at the NATS, but his plane is over <BR>> >>>> >> weight!!!!! <BR>> >>>> >> one more ! <BR>> >>>> >> <BR>> >>>> >> Sorry Chuck, even though you are flying at a disadvantage, we <BR>> >>>> >> will <BR>> >>>> >> not let you play at the NATS........Oh unless you can spend $2k <BR>> >>>> >> more on another plane. <BR>> >>>> >> <BR>> >>>> >> The story you have just read is about to be true, once we do not <BR>> >>>> >> let Chuck fly at this years NATS. But at least the French FAI <BR>> >>>> >> rule <BR>> >>>> >> makers are happy. <BR>> >>>> >> <BR>> >>>> >> Consider a weight change. It does not need to be across the <BR>> >>
;>> >> board <BR>> >>>> >> and for the life of me I cannot imagine why it needs to align <BR>> >>>> >> with <BR>> >>>> >> FAI. Chuck will have a 5Kg plane *BY THE TIME HE REACHES <BR>> >>>> >> FAI-*and <BR>> >>>> >> the French can be happy then*.* <BR>> >>>> >> <BR>> >>>> >> <BR>> >>>> >> <BR>> >>>> >> <BR>> >>>> >> <BR>> >>>> > <BR>> >>>> > ================================================= <BR>> >>>> > To access the email archives for this list, go to <BR>> >>>> > http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/ <BR>> >>>> > To be removed from this list, go to <BR>> >>>> > http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm <BR>> >>>> > and follow the instructions. <BR>> >>>> > <BR>> >>>> > <BR>> >>>> > <BR>> >>>> > <BR>> >>>> > -- <BR>> >>>> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. <BR>> >>>> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. <BR>> >>>> > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 1/17/2005 <BR>> >>>> > <BR>> >>>> > <BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>> -- <BR>> >>>> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. <BR>> >>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. <BR>> >>>> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 1/17/2005 <BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>> ================================================= <BR>> >>>> To access the email archives for this list, go to <BR>> >>>> http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/ <BR>> >>&
gt;> To be removed from this list, go to <BR>> >>>> http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm <BR>> >>>> and follow the instructions. <BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> ================================================= <BR>> >>> To access the email archives for this list, go to <BR>> >>> http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/ <BR>> >>> To be removed from this list, go to http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm <BR>> >>> and follow the instructions. <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> ================================================= <BR>> >> To access the email archives for this list, go to <BR>> >> http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/ <BR>> >> To be removed from this list, go to http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm <BR>> >> and follow the instructions. <BR>> >> <BR>> > <BR>> > ================================================= <BR>> > To access the email archives for this list, go to <BR>> > http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/ <BR>> > To be removed from this list, go to http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm <BR>> > and follow the instructions. <BR>> > <BR>> <BR>> ================================================= <BR>> To access the email archives for this list, go to <BR>> http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/ <BR>> To be removed from this list, go to http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm <BR>> and follow the instructions. <BR>> </BLOCKQUOTE></mailto:discussion@nsrca.org></mailto:gfowler@raytheon.com></body></html>