<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:v = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1 = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<META content=Word.Document name=ProgId>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2523" name=GENERATOR>
<META content="Microsoft Word 10" name=Originator><LINK href="cid:filelist.xml@01C50F5B.B91C3000" rel=File-List><o:SmartTagType name="PersonName" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:DoNotRelyOnCSS/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings></xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:SpellingState>Clean</w:SpellingState> <w:DocumentKind>DocumentEmail</w:DocumentKind> <w:EnvelopeVis/> <w:Compatibility> <w:ApplyBreakingRules/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument></xml><![endif]--><!--[if !mso]></HEAD><BODY lang=EN-US style="tab-interval: .5in" vLink=blue link=blue bgColor=white><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]><style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";}</style><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" /></xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext="edit"> <o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=559282518-10022005>Yeah, but my Dad
HATES expo, doesn't even use it with 3D throws! He is such a smooth flyer,
and uses fingers rather than thumbs, that he doesn't need it, He wants
control response, RIGHT NOW! So how well his breakout force works
other peoples flying is debatable. When he was still a regular on the
pattern circuit, he did spend a lot of time playing with stick lengths and
tension. He also wouldn't use anything but open gimbol sticks because nothing
else, at the time, felt right to him. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=559282518-10022005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=559282518-10022005></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=559282518-10022005>I use some expo, which drives
him nuts when he flies my planes. And my high rates are his low
rates. I tried flying with his throws, and no expo, but I'm not smooth
enough to do it. We usually end up having different setups for the same
airplane if we are going to trade off a lot. I run my sticks up as stiff as
I can get them. He still likes stiff springs, so at least we share
that.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=559282518-10022005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=559282518-10022005>I will say that
virtually every new transmitter I pick up has the springs set way to soft
for my tastes. It is too easy to get unintended control inputs. I
tell budding pattern flyers (and I am one of them) to stiffen up their springs,
and everyone of them has liked the feel better. I had a Futaba 9C for
awhile, and the stock springs at max tensions were still way too soft, so I
bought Futaba's "heavy duty" springs, and ran them up to full stiff. Still
too soft. If I'd kept it, I'd put on some Radio South springs. A
lady in our club, who is trying out pattern, has a low end JR computer
radio. The stock springs in that thing were even softer than the 9c, and
couldn't be adjusted much stiffer. She sent her transmitter off to Radio
South and got stiff springs, and she is much happier, since she isn't getting
the cross inputs. She was very frustrated before, because we could see she
was putting in some unintended inputs, but she swore she wasn't. If the
manufacturers would stiffen up the springs from the factory, I think it would
help almost every flyer fly better.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=559282518-10022005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=559282518-10022005>Now don't tell my
Dad that I questioned his tastes! ;)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jon Lowe</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Dean Pappas<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 10, 2005 12:20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Linear output -
was Notes to Self 3<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>We
don't adjust for "linear" throw:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Some
of adjust for a linear "feel", which has to be put in quotes 'cause nobody
can define it, and because there are wild differences of
opinion. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Others simply dial enough EXPO in to get manageable sensitivities
arounsd neutral with the maximum throw that was found necessary to perform
some maneuver.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>That
usually means like the plane feels like it has a break-point in the stick
response, which has always driven me, personally, nuts.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The
breakout force needed to budge the stick out of neutral is an important part
of the deal.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Jon's Dad always asserted that three ounces of breakout force were the
"correct" amount. When in doubt, listen to the Guru.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Lots
of flyers dial EXPO in to solve the problem of too soft sticks,
which allow them to unconsciously put undesired inputs
in.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The
soft neutral reduces a problem caused by something else ... like too darned
much caffeine!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Some
peoples' feel is by stick pressure, others by movement.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>You'll never come up with a one-size-fits-all deal, though Don Lowe's
breakout force spec is a pretty good one.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Later,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>Atwood, Mark<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 10, 2005 1:04
PM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA Discussion List (E-mail)<BR><B>Subject:</B> Linear
output - was Notes to Self 3<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=117045117-10022005><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ok...I have a
question for the Aeronautical engineers in the group... All of
this discussion has been centered around an assumed desire to get a linear
relationship between our stick movement, and that of the control
surface. Clearly the effect of moving a control surface on the
aircraft is proportional to the amount of movement...but is it
linear?? I have to beleive it's not... Just don't know the
mechanics behind it...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=117045117-10022005><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=117045117-10022005><FONT face=Arial size=2>Assuming it's
not...(And I'm betting for some portion of the throw is close enough to be
considered linear and then at higher deflections it becomes either more or
less efficient) is there really a purpose to trying to exact the linear
nature of the stick/control surface linkage...or it is an exercise in
retentiveness :)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=117045117-10022005><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=117045117-10022005><FONT face=Arial size=2>I also know that
our spring tension on the sticks in not linear...especially around
center...so it seems unlikely that what "Feels" linear isn't
anyway.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=117045117-10022005><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=117045117-10022005><FONT face=Arial size=2>To me it's akin
to comparing two high end stereo systems both of which have specifications
well beyond the range of human hearing....</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=117045117-10022005><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=117045117-10022005><FONT face=Arial size=2>-Mark</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=117045117-10022005><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>