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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ah, a Factor fan.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=d.pappas@kodeos.com href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">Dean Pappas</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 10, 2005 2:41
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Linear output </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=193233419-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Hi
Jon,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=193233419-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Old
Dave Brown quote when someone asked him why the World Engine Expertt radios
had soft sticks, if he liked stiff ones so much ... "soft sticks sell radios
and stiff sticks win".</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=193233419-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Let's leave aside any pithy interpretations, there is a market
perception issue. That, and the plastic stick assemblies don't like tons of
spring tension: the old ProLinnes were made of real metal.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=193233419-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Dean</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=193233419-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>Jon Lowe<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 10, 2005 1:54
PM<BR><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Linear output -
was Notes to Self 3<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]><style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";}</style><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" /></xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext="edit"> <o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=559282518-10022005>Yeah, but my Dad
HATES expo, doesn't even use it with 3D throws! He is such a smooth
flyer, and uses fingers rather than thumbs, that he doesn't need it,
He wants control response, RIGHT NOW! So how well his breakout
force works other peoples flying is debatable. When he was still
a regular on the pattern circuit, he did spend a lot of time playing with
stick lengths and tension. He also wouldn't use anything but open gimbol
sticks because nothing else, at the time, felt right to him.
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=559282518-10022005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=559282518-10022005></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=559282518-10022005>I use some expo, which drives him nuts when he
flies my planes. And my high rates are his low rates. I tried
flying with his throws, and no expo, but I'm not smooth enough to do
it. We usually end up having different setups for the same airplane if
we are going to trade off a lot. I run my sticks up as stiff as I can
get them. He still likes stiff springs, so at least we share
that.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=559282518-10022005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=559282518-10022005>I will say that
virtually every new transmitter I pick up has the springs set way to
soft for my tastes. It is too easy to get unintended control
inputs. I tell budding pattern flyers (and I am one of them) to
stiffen up their springs, and everyone of them has liked the feel
better. I had a Futaba 9C for awhile, and the stock springs at max
tensions were still way too soft, so I bought Futaba's "heavy duty" springs,
and ran them up to full stiff. Still too soft. If I'd kept it,
I'd put on some Radio South springs. A lady in our club, who is trying
out pattern, has a low end JR computer radio. The stock springs in
that thing were even softer than the 9c, and couldn't be adjusted much
stiffer. She sent her transmitter off to Radio South and got stiff
springs, and she is much happier, since she isn't getting the cross
inputs. She was very frustrated before, because we could see she was
putting in some unintended inputs, but she swore she wasn't. If the
manufacturers would stiffen up the springs from the factory, I think it
would help almost every flyer fly better.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=559282518-10022005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=559282518-10022005>Now don't tell
my Dad that I questioned his tastes! ;)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jon Lowe</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Dean Pappas<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 10, 2005
12:20 PM<BR><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Linear
output - was Notes to Self 3<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>We don't adjust for "linear" throw:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Some of adjust for a linear "feel", which has to be put in quotes
'cause nobody can define it, and because there are wild differences
of opinion. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Others simply dial enough EXPO in to get manageable sensitivities
arounsd neutral with the maximum throw that was found necessary to perform
some maneuver.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>That usually means like the plane feels like it has a break-point
in the stick response, which has always driven me, personally,
nuts.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>The breakout force needed to budge the stick out of neutral is an
important part of the deal.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Jon's Dad always asserted that three ounces of breakout force were
the "correct" amount. When in doubt, listen to the
Guru.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Lots of flyers dial EXPO in to solve the problem of too soft
sticks, which allow them to unconsciously put undesired inputs
in.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>The soft neutral reduces a problem caused by something else ...
like too darned much caffeine!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Some peoples' feel is by stick pressure, others by
movement.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>You'll never come up with a one-size-fits-all deal, though Don
Lowe's breakout force spec is a pretty good one.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=444070918-10022005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Later,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>Atwood, Mark<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 10, 2005
1:04 PM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA Discussion List (E-mail)<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Linear output - was Notes to Self 3<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=117045117-10022005><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ok...I have
a question for the Aeronautical engineers in the group...
All of this discussion has been centered around an assumed desire to get
a linear relationship between our stick movement, and that of the
control surface. Clearly the effect of moving a control surface on
the aircraft is proportional to the amount of movement...but is it
linear?? I have to beleive it's not... Just don't know
the mechanics behind it...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=117045117-10022005><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=117045117-10022005><FONT face=Arial size=2>Assuming
it's not...(And I'm betting for some portion of the throw is close
enough to be considered linear and then at higher deflections it becomes
either more or less efficient) is there really a purpose to trying to
exact the linear nature of the stick/control surface linkage...or it is
an exercise in retentiveness :)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=117045117-10022005><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=117045117-10022005><FONT face=Arial size=2>I also know
that our spring tension on the sticks in not linear...especially around
center...so it seems unlikely that what "Feels" linear isn't
anyway.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=117045117-10022005><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=117045117-10022005><FONT face=Arial size=2>To me it's
akin to comparing two high end stereo systems both of which have
specifications well beyond the range of human
hearing....</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=117045117-10022005><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=117045117-10022005><FONT face=Arial
size=2>-Mark</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=117045117-10022005><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>