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<DIV><FONT color=#000000>Buddy,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>I agree with your thought process regarding wing
loading. 100 squares per pound is a very good standard to
use.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>I agree the most competitive monoplane that fits in a
2x2m box will have no problem being under 11 lbs (but many are apparently having
a problem achieving this).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>I agree that the monoplanes are dominant in
IMAC.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>However -</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>- In IMAC, there is no (practical) weight limit or size
limit, so neither the monoplanes or bipes are restricted in any meaningful way -
so the swing is back to monoplanes - no real surprise.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>- In pattern, the bipe that is competitive with the
good monoplanes is very close to 11 lbs (as we have seen with the Double Vision
bipes) and appear to be relatively fragile at that weight. The reason the
bipe hasn't been accepted (my opinion) is the average guy knows how difficult it
would be for him to achieve and maintain a DV (or similar sized bipe that is
competitive with the best monoplanes) under 11 lbs.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>Raise the weight limit in pattern, and the 2x2m
monoplane will get bigger and more costly (and the most competitive examples
will still probably be under 11 lbs, but the "average" plane won't
be).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>Raise the weight limit in pattern while leaving
unlimited displacement and the 2x2m box, and the 2x2m monoplane will no longer
be the most competive design - the most competitive design will be a purpose
designed pattern bipe that will be substantially more expensive (money, time,
maintenance) than the current day designs.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>If you don't think a purpose design pattern bipe would
be the best, ask Chip. He will tell you without reservation he would not
have flown his Double Visions in the past few years if he did not think it was
the best plane.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000><BR>Dave</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=BUDDYonRC@aol.com
href="mailto:BUDDYonRC@aol.com">BUDDYonRC@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 25, 2005 1:02
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Weight rules discussion ( my
opinion)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT id=role_document face=Arial color=#8000ff size=2>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 2/24/2005 9:11:03 PM Central Standard Time, <A
href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A> writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>Buddy,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>Do the rules of aerodynamics include things like
wing loading and power loading? Both of those will be dramatically
effected by a change in the weight limit (up or down). With unlimited
displacement and 2x2m maximum dimensions available, weight is very much
a design factor.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>Dave</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>"Lance
<DIV>In my evaluation the rules need to apply to Pattern as a whole. With
the two meter size limit builders will utilize the rules of aerodynamics to
achieve the optimum design and weight becomes a moot issue for all
classes.</DIV>
<DIV>Buddy "</DIV></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mailto:BUDDYonRC@aol.com
href="mailto:BUDDYonRC@aol.com">BUDDYonRC@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=mailto:discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 24, 2005
8:56 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Weight rules discussion
( my opinion)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#8000ff size=2>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 2/24/2005 7:25:59 PM Central Standard Time, <A
title=mailto:patterndude@comcast.net
href="mailto:patterndude@comcast.net">patterndude@comcast.net</A>
writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>Buddy,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>One good idea that I didn't see in your list
was the onelwhere the weight limit for the Advanced-thru-FAI classes
remains the same but the limit for Sportsmand/Intermediate is
raised. This really makes sense to me. We are all
comfortable with advancing difficulty in sequences. Well, building
light is also a learned skill and sometimes requires more $$
comittment. Pilots grow in flying, building, trimming
skills. Why subject sportsman to FAI building rules?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>--Lance</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mailto:BUDDYonRC@aol.com
href="mailto:BUDDYonRC@aol.com">BUDDYonRC@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=mailto:discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 24, 2005
1:33 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Weight rules discussion
( my opinion)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#8000ff size=2>
<DIV>Since the whole message was to large to post following is my
opinion.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3>After a thorough weighted
comparison of the items listed in my previous post I have arrived at
the following conclusions.</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><FONT
color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It is most important that we
strive to make pattern an inclusive sport, which I feel is necessary
to increase participation in the future. In order to do that one of
the first item that should be addressed is that of eliminating the
illegitimate double standard in the weight rule. There are two
possible solutions; the first would be to enforce all rules, which
many agree in this case would not be in patterns best interest. That
leaves us with only one solution and that is to change the rule.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><FONT
color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>In doing that we must consider
the overall impact of such a change to insure that it serves to
protect all the other aspects concerned as much as possible. After
careful review and acknowledging that maintaining the two-meter rule
is in fact the limiting design criteria for pattern I suggest that a
change in the rule upward to twelve pounds or in light of current FAI
considerations, to 5.5K would be an appropriate
solution.</FONT></FONT></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3>This change could possibly
effect other aspects of pattern design in the future but given the
known requirements some of which are listed in my previous post that
are necessary and practiced extensively today I have little fear that
this change will result in any major design changes that would present
a problem or afford anyone an unfair advantage in the near
future.</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><FONT
color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If you study the items in my
previous post it will also become apparent that there are many
listed that offer the potential to increase our participation and make
pattern more inclusive. </FONT></FONT></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3>Should anyone have any
other items to offer that I should include which may require further
evaluation concerning my conclusions and suggested weight change
please forward them to me.</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3>Buddy Brammer</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><FONT
color=#000000><FONT
face="Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><FONT
color=#000000><FONT
face="Times New Roman"></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Lance</DIV>
<DIV>In my evaluation the rules need to apply to Pattern as a whole. With
the two meter size limit builders will utilize the rules of aerodynamics
to achieve the optimum design and weight becomes a moot issue for all
classes.</DIV>
<DIV>Buddy </DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Dave</DIV>
<DIV>I agree considering optimum design within the two meter limit,
performance will be determined by the design. Optimum weight is included
in the equation. If weight is increased the design must change to obtain
optimum performance. Today design weight is in the neighborhood of
one pound per one hundred square inches of wing area. In the past patterns
dictated an eleven hundred square inch wing area. Optimum design is now
at about nine hundred and eighty square inches due to requirements
brought about by the current patterns we fly, and in reality that is the
driving force in the current design equation required to obtain optimum
performance and always will be.</DIV>
<DIV>Considering a twelve pound weight limit, a two meter maximum size limit
and the fact that power requirements increase exponentially as size, drag and
weight increase, I don't see how a designer would attempt to purposely
consider such a challenge and expect optimum performance with the
possible exception of a biplane design and that option has always been out
there, tried a few times and excluding Chip's effort has never been accepted.
</DIV>
<DIV>In fact look at IMAC where anything is possible and the swing is back
toward monoplanes and away from biplanes, I wonder why?</DIV>
<DIV>Considering all the possibilities I still think a weight change is the
way to go. </DIV>
<DIV> Buddy</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>