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<DIV><SPAN class=832034421-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
wasn't there, as I was only a youngster at the time ...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=832034421-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>But
there are more than a few people who were there and told me that Ron was on the
bubble to make that Team when the flight he counted on wasn't watched by his own
judges ... they were too busy watching Ted's plane blow by. Interestingly
enough, the only person I knew who was there and didn't tell me 'bout it was
Chidgey himself.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> discussion-request@nsrca.org
[mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of
</B>dwaynenancy<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 03, 2005 4:28 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Pattern Box Rules
(discussion)<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>If you wanted someone to fly close in all you had to do was find Ted
White. Do you remember when he and Ron Chidgey were flying at the same
time and Ted flew his pattern centered on the runway (I've been told since I
wasn't there) and there was a MASS rumbling for Ted being so unkind.
Dwayne</DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=d.pappas@kodeos.com href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">Dean
Pappas</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 03, 2005 11:52
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Pattern Box Rules
(discussion)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Hi
Jim,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>I'm really not looking to argue with you, but that's not where we
used to fly, back pre-Turnaround.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Oh
yeah, some of us flew close in, and there were regional variations (you
couldn't score for beans on Long Island twenty five years ago if you didn't
do your rolls over the runway at less than 50 feet) but by and large we flew
right at 150 meters and maybe farther for some tall stuff. Most flew
bottoms well over 100', and tops on some stuff often violated
the 45 degree maneuver box a bit. Look at it another way, we were not flying
smaller, with our 120 MPH planes, and the square loop with 1/2 rolls was
supposed to stay under 45 degrees. They were flown far
out.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Now a statement like that, I need to prove. The last non turnaround
Team Trials was held in '83 at Rough River Falls Ky. There is a road
parallel to the runway and it was measured at about 175 meters away. We were
asked, midway through the contest, to stop flying over and past the road.
There were businesses and houses there.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Early after Turnaround, the same was true, on the same site.
Nowadays, there is still a contest there. OK ... who has attended that
contest the last couple of years? Do they still have a constant problem with
road overflight?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Turnaround really has reduced our noise
footprint.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>later,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Dean</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>J.Oddino<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 03, 2005 11:57
AM<BR><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Pattern Box
Rules (discussion)<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I think Gray has broken the code but doesn't
know it. The reason people fly too far out is so they can stay in
the box. In the old days we'd fly the maneuvers where the judges
could see them. We probably never flew more than 100 meters out or
over 150 meters high. There was a 60 degree "box" (really a
triangle) but all maneuvers were center maneuvers and easy to judge as far
as positioning. Turnaround required that the maneuvers be moved
out. It was supposed to reduce the noise footprint but did the
opposite. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The box should be a box and the
horizontal distance at 75 degrees ought to be the same as it is at
60. I haven't gone through the numbers but I'll bet it is easier for
all to see the plane at the edges of a rectangular box if it is flown
in closer. The objective ought to be to keep the footprint small
and to make it easier for the judges and pilots to see the airplane.
That's my take.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>JimO</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=gfowler@raytheon.com href="mailto:gfowler@raytheon.com">Gray E
Fowler</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 03, 2005 6:44
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Pattern Box Rules
(discussion)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>My vote would be to up
the penalty for flying too far out. Hard to tell if it is 150 or
175, but 200 meters to me is a ZERO...outta the box. But I can only give
a serious 2pt downgrade. It bothers me when people fly 200-225 meters
out with a downgrade. Problem here of course is the FAI's are about the
worse offenders -i.e. can't do a rolling circle within 175 meters-fly it
right or get rid of it. Considering that us low class types follow their
lead (butt sniffin' in reality) no wonder I see 250 meter
patterns.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>The box dimensions are
just fine.
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