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<DIV>Ron is too much of a southern gentleman to tell anyone. I consider
him a friend. Dwayne</DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=d.pappas@kodeos.com href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">Dean Pappas</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 03, 2005 3:48
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Pattern Box Rules
(discussion)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=832034421-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
wasn't there, as I was only a youngster at the time ...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=832034421-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>But
there are more than a few people who were there and told me that Ron was on
the bubble to make that Team when the flight he counted on wasn't watched by
his own judges ... they were too busy watching Ted's plane blow by.
Interestingly enough, the only person I knew who was there and didn't tell me
'bout it was Chidgey himself.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </P>
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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>dwaynenancy<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 03, 2005 4:28
PM<BR><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Pattern Box
Rules (discussion)<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>If you wanted someone to fly close in all you had to do was find Ted
White. Do you remember when he and Ron Chidgey were flying at the same
time and Ted flew his pattern centered on the runway (I've been told since I
wasn't there) and there was a MASS rumbling for Ted being so unkind.
Dwayne</DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=d.pappas@kodeos.com href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">Dean
Pappas</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 03, 2005 11:52
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Pattern Box Rules
(discussion)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Hi Jim,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>I'm really not looking to argue with you, but that's not where we
used to fly, back pre-Turnaround.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Oh yeah, some of us flew close in, and there were regional
variations (you couldn't score for beans on Long Island twenty five years
ago if you didn't do your rolls over the runway at less than 50 feet) but
by and large we flew right at 150 meters and maybe farther for some tall
stuff. Most flew bottoms well over 100', and tops on some
stuff often violated the 45 degree maneuver box a bit. Look at it
another way, we were not flying smaller, with our 120 MPH planes, and the
square loop with 1/2 rolls was supposed to stay under 45 degrees. They
were flown far out.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Now a statement like that, I need to prove. The last non turnaround
Team Trials was held in '83 at Rough River Falls Ky. There is a road
parallel to the runway and it was measured at about 175 meters away. We
were asked, midway through the contest, to stop flying over and past the
road. There were businesses and houses there.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Early after Turnaround, the same was true, on the same site.
Nowadays, there is still a contest there. OK ... who has attended that
contest the last couple of years? Do they still have a constant problem
with road overflight?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Turnaround really has reduced our noise
footprint.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>later,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Dean</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624463717-03032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </P>
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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>J.Oddino<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 03, 2005 11:57
AM<BR><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Pattern Box
Rules (discussion)<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I think Gray has broken the code but
doesn't know it. The reason people fly too far out is so they can
stay in the box. In the old days we'd fly the maneuvers where the
judges could see them. We probably never flew more than 100 meters
out or over 150 meters high. There was a 60 degree "box" (really a
triangle) but all maneuvers were center maneuvers and easy to judge as
far as positioning. Turnaround required that the maneuvers be
moved out. It was supposed to reduce the noise footprint but
did the opposite. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The box should be a box and the
horizontal distance at 75 degrees ought to be the same as it is at
60. I haven't gone through the numbers but I'll bet it is easier
for all to see the plane at the edges of a rectangular box if it is
flown in closer. The objective ought to be to keep the
footprint small and to make it easier for the judges and pilots to
see the airplane. That's my take.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>JimO</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=gfowler@raytheon.com href="mailto:gfowler@raytheon.com">Gray
E Fowler</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 03, 2005
6:44 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Pattern Box Rules
(discussion)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>My vote would be to up
the penalty for flying too far out. Hard to tell if it is 150 or
175, but 200 meters to me is a ZERO...outta the box. But I can only
give a serious 2pt downgrade. It bothers me when people fly 200-225
meters out with a downgrade. Problem here of course is the FAI's are
about the worse offenders -i.e. can't do a rolling circle within 175
meters-fly it right or get rid of it. Considering that us low class
types follow their lead (butt sniffin' in reality) no wonder I see 250
meter patterns.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>The box
dimensions are just fine.
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