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<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 3/8/2005 4:09:24 PM Central Standard Time,
Rcmaster199@aol.com writes:</DIV>
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<DIV>
<DIV>I believe that this may open a different can of worms. It's true
that some guys attend contests simply for the fun and camaraderie of the
flying, but there is a whole nother set of troops that attends to compete. In
my opinion, this is the largest of the two, by wide margin. These folks want
to win, place or show and really try hard to do their best. The former
group may not care as much about doing its best; just being there is good
enough. But it is still an extremely important group nontheless.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It seems to me that there are a bunch of guys, (Masters in D3 is a good
example) that are very good in their present class(most of us are quite evenly
matched), and some of these may decide to drop down a class and park for a
while. Taking that skill level down to Advanced could demoralize the Advanced
level guys that want to really compete, and could actually have the exact
opposite effect from that desired. I wouldn't want any Advanced competitor to
leave the sport because of an infusion of Masters class guys re-entering the
class</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>We agree on the fact that the points system is silly and
unenforceable.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Having said all that, I wouldn't be aversed to a trial run of such a
rule. Reconvene after the trial period was over and make a decision on its
success--failure. Then make a final decision and have buy-in from the CB up
front to either make a change, or not. Having CB buy-in up front will
alleviate some of the acremonious debate we have seen in past issues. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I recommend caution either way. This indeed is unchartered territory, at
least in my 27 years, and demands careful thought. I like the fact that the
committee is thinking in different and challenging ways to improve the sport
for everyone, eventhough THIS committee's charter is to build schedules
and not rules.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>MattK</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>PS- one more thought on this: it may turn out that no self respecting
Masters competitor will move down to Advanced, or Advanced down to
Intermediate. Then this suggested approach could work. Convincing the AMA CB
will be the trick</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 3/8/2005 4:20:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
patternrules@earthlink.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>From:
Troy A. Newman <BR>To: discussion@nsrca.org<BR>Sent: 3/8/2005 2:18:31 PM
<BR>Subject: [SPAM] Rules changes Advancement<BR><BR><BR>Buddy,<BR>I have
been really quiet lately. I don't think the changes you are looking<BR>at
are going to increase pattern participation. The weight and box limits<BR>in
my opinion are good and don't need jacking with......<BR><BR>I know you and
Don are working hard at it. We on the sequence committee are<BR>as well. I
don't think changing the box is going to help us. I really don't<BR>think
changes to the weights or sizes is going to help us....<BR><BR>I want to
weigh in here so to speak on something that I feel will help<BR>pattern grow
in changes to the rule book. I feel most changes to the rule<BR>book are
going to make us more elite or a more secret way you have to do<BR>things.
Guys that are even in our ranks don't read the rules so why make<BR>them
even more specialized..and so on.<BR><BR>BUT there is a single set of things
in the book that I feel and others feel<BR>need to be
addressed.<BR><BR>Advancement to the next class.<BR><BR>I think we should
just NIX all advancement rules. Let the pilot fly<BR>whatever wants too and
when ever he wants too. Let him jump around if<BR>needed. The reason its not
used. I have been from sea to shinning sea ATL<BR>to CA and have never
actually heard anybody keeping track of their points.<BR>The AMA says its up
to the pilot and they provide a little card to fill<BR>out. I have been
flying pattern since 86 and have never seen one of the<BR>cards! Its not
enforceable. There is no database to keep the records. It<BR>takes too much
time and energy. We spend our time and energy in other<BR>places more
rightfully so....So lets eliminate the advancement system.<BR><BR>Reason #2
is we don't have the numbers we once had to push people up to<BR>another
class when they may not be ready. SO would we rather push a pilot<BR>up to
the next class and maybe out by peer pressure...... or have him<BR>staying
in the same class.<BR><BR>My opinion is I don't care if Dave Brown himself
came back and flew<BR>Advanced. I think we could all benefit from him being
a the contest and<BR>participating in the events.<BR><BR>Prime example I
witnessed two district Champions last season move up to the<BR>next class
and neither one was ready to go. But they felt obligated to go<BR>since they
won the D champs. The reality was that they went to enough<BR>contests to
get the points. The reality also is they don't have the skills<BR>they
needed to learn in the previous class.<BR><BR>Pattern is about perfection
and precision. I see our pattern ranks getting<BR>smaller and smaller and
the skill sets getting weaker and weaker. The pilot<BR>that survives the
Intermediate sequence for a couple years maybe even wins<BR>some stuff
around locally then moves up. But the reality is just because he<BR>won
everything locally with maybe 2-3-4 pilot doesn't mean he is now
ready<BR>for the next show. The quality of flying in the lower classes seems
to be<BR>lower that it has been in the past. Our numbers seem to be much
much lower<BR>too. Pattern flying is about perfection and flying that
perfect sequence. I<BR>think if we eliminate the advancement stuff over time
we will gain back<BR>some of the old dogs for another run. And new pilots
that have not learned<BR>the required skills can get them before moving on.
It has been brought up<BR>that back in the old days pre-turnaround...a local
guy would dust off his<BR>model and support he clubs local event. Maybe if
we let him fly whatever he<BR>wants then we might get him to come back after
5-10 years off. This could<BR>also could encourage new people. No pressure
to move up. Enjoy the<BR>competition at a level you are comfortable.
Right now we reward any margin<BR>of success with more and more challenge.
Maybe this pushes people away.<BR>Many people in their lives are content to
be right where they are. They<BR>want to play and have fun with the
group...but are not comfortable up with<BR>the next group. WE SHOULD NOT
TURN THEM AWAY!<BR><BR>Some pilots will never be ready for a jump from
Intermediate to advanced.<BR>regardless of the current large steps between a
couple classes. I feel that<BR>there are some career Intermediate pilots
like my father in-law Jerry. He<BR>is one of the best pilots at his local
club. He is the man for test<BR>flights, and advice among the crowd. But He
is happy and challenged with<BR>Intermediate. He will continue to be happy
and challenged with it for a<BR>long time to come. <BR><BR>The cheer from
the crowd in the awards of the contest is always move<BR>up...move up.
Especially in Sportsman.Is pushing people away...in my mind.<BR>We need to
pat them on the back and say good job...not jump IN and get<BR>eaten by the
sharks.<BR><BR>I think this defeats ourselves a little. <BR><BR>If we let
someone jump around classes and he got in too deep he could<BR>always come
back without AMA, DVP, and so on approval. Just fly what ever<BR>class you
want to fly!<BR><BR>The question is would we rather have a guy sand bag a
little and still have<BR>him at an event or call him a trophy hog and push
him out. This goes for<BR>older more seasoned pilots as well. The guy is
getting up there a little in<BR>years like my buddy Pastorello <picking
on you man I like to pick on Bob<BR>because he fights back!>
and flew at a very high level of competition but<BR>now wants to not
practice all the time...maybe doesn't have the best model<BR>for the
job....Let him move back from a masters to an advanced and fly<BR>there. He
has a bunch of knowledge and can help people at the events.
Plus<BR>sometimes he is even fun to fly with!<BR><BR>Would we rather have
him or Not?<BR><BR>This does a couple things. Keeps the pilots that can't
make it at the<BR>higher level what ever the reason...and it also improves
the skills of the<BR>lower classes. A newer pilot will have to be more
prepared to win an event<BR>and he will not readily jump to the next class
as there is nobody to fly<BR>against in the current class. Competition is a
motivation factor. If a guy<BR>is out there doing his two loops really
well...then it will inspire the<BR>another pilot to "work on my two loops
because old Bob is going to kick my<BR>butt when we get to the contest next
week."<BR><BR>For most people the biggest factor for them being here in
Pattern today is<BR>they wanted to learn to fly better. But that success and
flying better<BR>today pushes them into another class that is more difficult
yet. You know<BR>Mark Martin is still running the Busch Series and he has
been a Cup<BR>champion and Busch Champion before too. Even though many look
at the Busch<BR>and Truck series as a kind of minor leagues to the Cup
cars.<BR><BR>Just some thoughts<BR><BR>TN</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Another thing it will do is to let a person advance and get his feet wet in
a higher class without preventing him to move back down if he finds he is not
ready for the move to the higher class.</DIV>
<DIV>Buddy</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>