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<DIV>Mark, although most people don't park in a class, I have experienced
a couple instances where a guy actually wins the DC in his class one year,
takes the next year off for whatever reason, then he returns back in his old
class. I appreciate the fact that he returned and like the added attendance, but
some of his fellow competitors may not agree.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>What I am saying is a Checks and Balances system needs to be in place such
that this type of situation is controlled. I admit it doesn't happen often and
may not be viewed as a big deal by the higher class pilots, but it raises the
eyebrows of the guys it affects. At present the policing is supposed to be done
by the DVP. As a past DVP, I didn't care for the idea of telling someone when to
move. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The DVPs need a better tool. At the same time, the tool needs to be
flexible enough so that that the guys without enough skill aren't forced up.
I've seen this situation also. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Careful schedule design and more frequent change may alleviate some of the
concern. The parkers could, in effect, start fresh every year, just as the new
guys entering a class. That places different burden on the group designing
schedules and on the AMA CB approving them. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>regards</DIV>
<DIV>MattK</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 3/8/2005 8:38:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
DaveL322@comcast.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>Mark,<BR><BR>It is rare and an exception - I guess I don't see the harm
in keeping a rule<BR>around that would give "us" some teeth to prevent a
trophy hog.<BR><BR>I am a little concerned (as MattK) that if we totally
deleted the point<BR>system, we might encourage a trophy hog.<BR><BR>I'm
thinking we have room to adjust the point system without deleting
it.<BR><BR>Dave<BR><BR><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Atwood,
Mark" <atwoodm@paragon-inc.com><BR>To:
<discussion@nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 8:07
PM<BR>Subject: RE: Rules Changes----Advancement<BR><BR><BR>Dave,<BR><BR>Have
you actually experienced any "trophy hogs"? Maybe I'm naïve, but
I<BR>haven't really experienced this. We've on rare occasion had someone
"hang"<BR>in a class for an extra half season in hopes of doing well at the
Nats<BR>before moving up, but even that's been rare.<BR><BR>We always
talk/worry about the trophy hog, but I guess I see that as a<BR>hollow fear
from my end. Just curious what you've actually experienced in<BR>the
sandbagging ranks.<BR><BR>Mark<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From:
discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]
On<BR>Behalf Of David Lockhart<BR>Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 7:42 PM<BR>To:
discussion@nsrca.org<BR>Subject: Fw: Rules Changes----Advancement<BR><BR>I
agree with Matt that changes in this area should be made with
caution.<BR><BR>I like the idea that a pilot could fly a higher class for fun
and to test<BR>the waters, and then drop back to their regular class.<BR><BR>I
like the idea that somebody having an off year (reduced time or
equipment<BR>in a given year) can drop back a class to make it easier for them
to compete<BR>and have fun.<BR><BR>I have no problem with a pilot "demoting"
themselves to stay in the event<BR>and have fun (so long as they don't end up
perpetually at the top of their<BR>new chosen class).<BR><BR>I think very few
people are interested in forcing a pilot to "move up"<BR>simply because they
accumulated enough points - pilots should move up when<BR>they have aquired
the skills to fly in the next class, and when they are<BR>clearly superior to
others in their class - ie, they are sand-baggers /<BR>trophy hogs which I
don't think are good for the event.<BR><BR>The point system is rarely used -
but I think it would be easy enough to<BR>enforce - most NSRCA Districts track
points for the annual District Champs<BR>using some kind of system. It
wouldn't be too hard to use data captured in<BR>the District Champs tracking
to figure out AMA advancement points. I think<BR>we are fortunate that
most pilots do move up at appropriate times, but<BR>having a mechanism in
place to pressure a few exceptions is a nice option to<BR>have. I would
absolutely support using the AMA advancement point system to<BR>force a pilot
to move up who clearly belonged in a higher class, but stayed<BR>put to be a
trophy hog.<BR><BR>To that end, I think the point system should remain on the
books - and maybe<BR>we could modify it such that it would be more likely to
force trophy hogs to<BR>move up, and less likely to ever push a career guy out
of his class. There<BR>are a number of ways that could be
done.<BR><BR>Dave<BR><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From:
Rcmaster199@aol.com<BR>To: discussion@nsrca.org<BR>Sent: Tuesday, March 08,
2005 5:08 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Rules Changes----Advancement<BR><BR><BR>I believe
that this may open a different can of worms. It's true that some<BR>guys
attend contests simply for the fun and camaraderie of the flying, but<BR>there
is a whole nother set of troops that attends to compete. In my<BR>opinion,
this is the largest of the two, by wide margin. These folks want
to<BR><BR>win, place or show and really try hard to do their best. The former
group<BR>may not care as much about doing its best; just being there is good
enough.<BR>But it is still an extremely important group nontheless.<BR><BR>It
seems to me that there are a bunch of guys, (Masters in D3 is a
good<BR>example) that are very good in their present class(most of us are
quite<BR>evenly matched), and some of these may decide to drop down a class
and park<BR>for a while. Taking that skill level down to Advanced could
demoralize the<BR>Advanced level guys that want to really compete, and could
actually have the<BR>exact opposite effect from that desired. I wouldn't want
any Advanced<BR>competitor to leave the sport because of an infusion of
Masters class guys<BR>re-entering the class<BR><BR>We agree on the fact that
the points system is silly and unenforceable.<BR><BR>Having said all that, I
wouldn't be aversed to a trial run of such a rule.<BR>Reconvene after the
trial period was over and make a decision on its<BR>success--failure. Then
make a final decision and have buy-in from the CB up<BR>front to either make a
change, or not. Having CB buy-in up front will<BR>alleviate some of the
acremonious debate we have seen in past issues.<BR><BR>I recommend caution
either way. This indeed is unchartered territory, at<BR>least in my 27 years,
and demands careful thought. I like the fact that the<BR>committee is thinking
in different and challenging ways to improve the sport<BR>for everyone,
eventhough THIS committee's charter is to build schedules and<BR>not
rules.<BR><BR><BR>MattK<BR><BR>PS- one more thought on this: it may turn out
that no self respecting<BR>Masters competitor will move down to Advanced, or
Advanced down to<BR>Intermediate. Then this suggested approach could work.
Convincing the AMA CB<BR>will be the trick<BR><BR><BR><BR>In a message dated
3/8/2005 4:20:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,<BR>patternrules@earthlink.net
writes:<BR>From: Troy A. Newman<BR>To: discussion@nsrca.org<BR>Sent: 3/8/2005
2:18:31 PM<BR>Subject: [SPAM] Rules changes Advancement<BR><BR><BR>Buddy,<BR>I
have been really quiet lately. I don't think the changes you are looking<BR>at
are going to increase pattern participation. The weight and box limits<BR>in
my opinion are good and don't need jacking with......<BR><BR>I know you and
Don are working hard at it. We on the sequence committee are<BR>as well. I
don't think changing the box is going to help us. I really don't<BR>think
changes to the weights or sizes is going to help us....<BR><BR>I want to weigh
in here so to speak on something that I feel will help<BR>pattern grow in
changes to the rule book. I feel most changes to the rule<BR>book are going to
make us more elite or a more secret way you have to do<BR>things. Guys that
are even in our ranks don't read the rules so why make<BR>them even more
specialized..and so on.<BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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