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<P>Bill - we're planning to - Ed, me, maybe Anthony, maybe more-- ... but without at least a practice day or two, it the beer and bbq might not be worth the gas to get there... or maybe it will be anyway.</P>
<P>Rick Wallace<BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: Bill Glaze <billglaze@triad.rr.com>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: discussion@nsrca.org
<DIV></DIV>>To: discussion@nsrca.org
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Counting others' AMA points / WAS RE: Rules Changes----Advancement
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 08:30:45 -0500
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Ed:
<DIV></DIV>>Come on down here to the contest at Green Sea on the 2nd and 3rd.
<DIV></DIV>>Bring your suntan lotion!<G> Bill Glaze
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Ed Alt wrote:
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>>Yeah Rick, I wish I knew what kind of Spring rain dance to do to
<DIV></DIV>>>get the weather to break. About ready to hang myself from the
<DIV></DIV>>>workbench rafters here in the Northern NJ tundra. Gotta go make
<DIV></DIV>>>some more greenhouse gases now. EVERYONE needs to do their part!
<DIV></DIV>>> Ed
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> ----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>>> From: rick wallace <mailto:rickwallace45@hotmail.com>
<DIV></DIV>>> To: geobet@gis.net <mailto:geobet@gis.net> ;
<DIV></DIV>>>discussion@nsrca.org
<DIV></DIV>>> <mailto:discussion@nsrca.org>
<DIV></DIV>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 11:49 PM
<DIV></DIV>>> Subject: [SPAM] Counting others' AMA points / WAS RE: Rules
<DIV></DIV>>> Changes----Advancement
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> Georgie --
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> Hmmmm... the only classes where AMA points counting matters
<DIV></DIV>>>are
<DIV></DIV>>> Intermediate and Advanced. I'm seeing 'points abuse' /
<DIV></DIV>>> homesteading in a class as a non-issue, at least in D1. Maybe
<DIV></DIV>>>I'm
<DIV></DIV>>> missing something...
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> I've been keeping the D1 champs points for the last three
<DIV></DIV>>>years,
<DIV></DIV>>> and as of 2004 I started tracking all finishing places for all
<DIV></DIV>>> classes for all D1 contests. (great idea, Scott! Thanks)
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> I also kept my own points count thru Intermediate and
<DIV></DIV>>>Advanced,
<DIV></DIV>>> and moved up only when I pointed out of each class - and yes,
<DIV></DIV>>>that
<DIV></DIV>>> meant flying Advanced in 2004 after winning the 2003 Advanced
<DIV></DIV>>> district championship (and NOT repeating as champ, thank you
<DIV></DIV>>>very
<DIV></DIV>>> much, Ed! <g>) - because I wasn't ready to move up.
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> I kind of enjoy keeping the District champs stats, and making
<DIV></DIV>>>them
<DIV></DIV>>> available to the District via our web page, but I DON"T
<DIV></DIV>>> particularly want to be the district watchdog for counting all
<DIV></DIV>>>the
<DIV></DIV>>> AMA points for all our pilots.
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> -- Have you seen any evidence of 'points abuse' in D1
<DIV></DIV>>> Intermediate and Advanced (the only places where it really
<DIV></DIV>>> counts)? In the 5 years I've been flying pattern I don't think
<DIV></DIV>>>I
<DIV></DIV>>> have. In fact the results seem to indicate the opposite- Guys
<DIV></DIV>>>that
<DIV></DIV>>> compete a lot and finish in the top of the class a lot move up
<DIV></DIV>>> within a year or two.
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> -- I suspect that, as MattK pointed out a couple days ago, the
<DIV></DIV>>> advent of the 4 year life /duration of AMA points effective
<DIV></DIV>>>this
<DIV></DIV>>> year, points will be even less of an issue for the casual
<DIV></DIV>>> Intermediate / Advanced guy.
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> -- I can't believe that a guy can build / assemble / fly /
<DIV></DIV>>> maintain a competitive 2meter pattern plane and be incapable
<DIV></DIV>>>of
<DIV></DIV>>> keeping his own points count.
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> I'll be happy to discuss AMA points counts with any D1
<DIV></DIV>>> Intermediate or Advanced guy who doesn't understand what the
<DIV></DIV>>> system's about or how to keep points, and will gladly discuss
<DIV></DIV>>> (OFFLINE / OFFLIST) specifics with anyone who wants to me to
<DIV></DIV>>> investigate whether one of our guys is homesteading in a
<DIV></DIV>>>class.
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> But I really am not in favor of activating a system to
<DIV></DIV>>>scrutinize
<DIV></DIV>>> all 39 (last year's count of total faces that flew in at least
<DIV></DIV>>>1
<DIV></DIV>>> D1 contest in Intermediate / Advanced) of our Intermediate and
<DIV></DIV>>> Advanced pilots in hopes of catching a sandbagger. Let's focus
<DIV></DIV>>>on
<DIV></DIV>>> having FUN with our toy airplanes -- and deal with suspected
<DIV></DIV>>> exceptions as exceptions. I have no problem at all with
<DIV></DIV>>>talking to
<DIV></DIV>>> individuals about how this part of the system works.
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> Thanks for listening -
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> Anyone know a 'no-snow / no-wind' dance we can do to get some
<DIV></DIV>>> PRACTICE weather here in the Northeast???
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> Rick
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> -----Original Message-----
<DIV></DIV>>> From: discussion-request@nsrca.org
<DIV></DIV>>> [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org] On Behalf Of George
<DIV></DIV>>>Kennie
<DIV></DIV>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 2:29 PM
<DIV></DIV>>> To: discussion@nsrca.org
<DIV></DIV>>> Subject: Re: Rules Changes----Advancement
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> I think that if the district CD's were required to include the
<DIV></DIV>>> placement of "ALL" competitors(not just the first 3 places,
<DIV></DIV>>>but
<DIV></DIV>>> everyone in the class) in every class when submitting contest
<DIV></DIV>>> reports to the DVP for inclusion in the K-Factor, then it
<DIV></DIV>>>should
<DIV></DIV>>> be a relatively simple task to keep track of accrued totals
<DIV></DIV>>>for
<DIV></DIV>>> the season, at the end of which it could be reported in the
<DIV></DIV>>> K-Factor exactly who had pointed out in each class.The DVP's
<DIV></DIV>>> responsibility could be considered fulfilled at that point and
<DIV></DIV>>> have no further requirement to mandate any advancement demands
<DIV></DIV>>>on
<DIV></DIV>>> the individuals involved as their peer group would, in all
<DIV></DIV>>> probability, implement that role.
<DIV></DIV>>> Watcha think??? No good?????
<DIV></DIV>>> G.
<DIV></DIV>>> P.S. If the CD's will commit to it, I'd be willing to do the
<DIV></DIV>>>math
<DIV></DIV>>> for D1.
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> Atwood, Mark wrote:
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>> I guess I'm going to recuse myself from this discussion as a
<DIV></DIV>>>>lot
<DIV></DIV>>>> of this has never really made sense to me. I was never able
<DIV></DIV>>>>to
<DIV></DIV>>>> console myself from losing a contest by
<DIV></DIV>>>>thinking..."hmmm...that
<DIV></DIV>>>> guy that beat me really should have already moved up." Nor
<DIV></DIV>>>>did I
<DIV></DIV>>>> feel any tremendous since of accomplishment when after
<DIV></DIV>>>>finishing
<DIV></DIV>>>> 2nd all year to someone...I was suddenly finishing 1st
<DIV></DIV>>>>because
<DIV></DIV>>>> that person was flying a higher class.
<DIV></DIV>>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>> I will say this though...regardless of what "rule" WILL be in
<DIV></DIV>>>> place...there are rules in place now. There should be a
<DIV></DIV>>>> discussion along side this thread about enforcement. I think
<DIV></DIV>>>>I'm
<DIV></DIV>>>> a proponent of NO rule, simply because that's effectively
<DIV></DIV>>>>what we
<DIV></DIV>>>> have in practice today.
<DIV></DIV>>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>> We have only a small handful of scoring systems in place, all
<DIV></DIV>>>>of
<DIV></DIV>>>> which could produce a simple extract file with
<DIV></DIV>>>>participants/AMA
<DIV></DIV>>>> #/Class/placing, etc...that could be submitted to an NSRCA
<DIV></DIV>>>>rep
<DIV></DIV>>>> for import into a central database. I know...I'm not
<DIV></DIV>>>> volunteering either...Lol.
<DIV></DIV>>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>> -Mark
<DIV></DIV>>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
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