<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I've dealt with, retained, and been
part of retaining attorney's in the last five years regarding family law
and immigration issues. Not in ONE instance was I ever impressed
or helped by their performance. I'll try and cut to the chase: if
you have a PERSONAL relationship with an attorney that specializes in your
particular area of interest or need, then you will probably be safe to
hire/retain their services. If you are just flipping through the
phone book, you will definitely be screwed. Being an attorney must
be great, because at the inception of the "contract" or "retaining",
they do not guarantee a single thing or outcome, nor can they even guarantee
what their involvement will be - using the caveat that they must first
understand the whole case. The attorney is mostly an exquisite salesman.
The attorneys happen to know the "vocabulary" (notice I
did not say language or case-law) of law which they will use to impress
upon you that you will be: outmatched, unable to understand, unable
to answer, buried in paperwork, or subject to consequences "greater"
than that if you have them on your side. The attorney is the only
one that really wins in most cases. They win, and get paid whether
or not they make a mistake. Yes, attorneys make mistakes. The
bad part is, is that if they incorrectly "answer" the claims
filed against you or your group, the judge will still render a decision
or deny their motion. If this happens, your first and only chance
to "get-it-right" is over! Now, you must "appeal"
your case at which time standards of evidence, or levels of investigation
might be higher. When you discover that in deed, your attorney did
file motions incorrectly, or base his/her motions on invalid case law,
the judge does not say, "... yes dear citizen, I realize your attorney
filed an incorrect motion, so we will let you have a do-over. Come
back tomorrow and we will pretend today did not happen." No,,
I've seen the judge actually let the attorneys file what were incorrect
motions, then use "your" day in court, which "you"
pay for, as an opportunity to scold the errant attorney. Then that
attorney just files another motion, and "you" pay for another
day in court.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Here is the deal: Law and courts
are an "industry" in which the average citizen does not hold
the key and in which we are nearly prevented from entering. The administration
of your day in court is driven by the personality of the judge and his
scheduling system. The attorneys know this, and know that their personal
future in this industrial-system is based on their perception by these
judges, and not necessarily by winning or losing cases. Real life
is not what you see on TV. You are not entitled to a fair or equal
law-industry. Your case, your justice, your level of penalty, is
not based on the facts of the case at all. Instead, they are based
on the presentation of these circumstances to the judge. The function
of the judge is not to administer what we would consider "fairness"
to each party, rather to act as referee to the arguing attorneys. Even
if the judge knows exactly what must be said or done that would ultimately
give you the participant justice, they will not provide this information
to the attorneys. Fair? Not at all. </font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">It is my observation that there are
several tiers of law and justice. The very LOWEST level of competency
is the only one most people can afford. You, as a participant in
the great halls of justice, are not guaranteed ANYTHING just because you
hired an attorney. Nor do you have to hire an attorney just because
the other side did. While most of us would say that, "we don't
have the time to represent ourselves," I would say that you can not
afford NOT to - at least, even if you hire an attorney, you are still
responsible for your own justice and should do everything possible to out-think
and out-research the other side. If you leave this up to the average
attorney, you will be the loser, while they get paid. If you are
not actually paying for a "firm" to represent you, then all the
"research" is going to be done by the attorney himself, for all
the cases they represent. Attorneys have access to law databases
that you will probably not gain access to you. They do a quick internet/database
search and spend a few minutes trying to find a "similar" (probably
not exact) case, then use their computer to print out a "ready-to-file"
motion that has some fill-in-the-blank lines. Again, "you"
are responsible for the outcome. (all is my opinion).</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"> </font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Jim</font>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<td width=40%><font size=1 face="sans-serif"><b>"Norm500" <Norm500@comcast.net></b>
</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Sent by: discussion-request@nsrca.org</font>
<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">03/21/2005 12:43 PM</font>
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<div align=center><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Please respond to<br>
discussion@nsrca.org</font></div></table>
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<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">To</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif"><discussion@nsrca.org></font>
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<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">cc</font></div>
<td>
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<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Subject</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Re: Lawsuit Update</font></table>
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<td></table>
<br></table>
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<br>
<br><font size=2><tt>The one time my business was taken to small claims
court by a <br>
customer, (in New Mexico), I consulted with my lawyer before going <br>
to court. His recommendation was that I didn't need him in the <br>
small claims court, but if I lost, then he would represent me in <br>
an appeal which is apparently more formal. I won BTW so didn't <br>
need him. I do think it prudent to check with a lawyer and get <br>
his advice before going to court however.<br>
<br>
Norm<br>
<br>
----- Original Message ----- <br>
From: "Gray E Fowler" <gfowler@raytheon.com><br>
To: <discussion@nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 9:17 AM<br>
Subject: Lawsuit Update<br>
<br>
<br>
>I met with other club officials Saturday morning and here is what <br>
>we are<br>
> doing.<br>
><br>
> There was much discussion on whether to get a lawyer or not. <br>
> Some fear<br>
> that in Small claims in front of a JP, which by the way ignores <br>
> all normal<br>
> court rules, a lawyer would piss off the JP. This lady does not <br>
> have a<br>
> lawyer because she cannot really afford one. We are calling
all <br>
> current<br>
> club members and asking if they have had any interaction with <br>
> this lady<br>
><br>
> 1. Are you aware of anyone crashing on or near her property.<br>
> 2. Did she come over to our property and fall and break her arm<br>
><br>
> We are filing a response today denying all claims of trespassing <br>
> and the<br>
> breaking of her arm. Included in our response will be the prior <br>
> history<br>
> with this lady which includes<br>
><br>
> 1. A face to face meeting with the County Managers who reveiwed <br>
> our club<br>
> documents.<br>
> 2. A live noise demo that resulted in the County stating in <br>
> writing that a<br>
> noise problem does not exist and that they recognize that the <br>
> flying<br>
> boundaries are for reference only, and that occasional overflys <br>
> do happen<br>
> by accident and it is not a problem.<br>
> 3. Repeated Sherrif visits from her complaints, where as no <br>
> action is ever<br>
> taken.<br>
> 4. Results from County Commisioners court in front of a judge, <br>
> whereas her<br>
> claims were dismissed.<br>
><br>
> The JP will then make a decision on whether or not to hear this <br>
> case. Our<br>
> club members really think our response will end this, I do not.<br>
> I feel that our club members, like 90% of the rest of the world <br>
> are<br>
> fearful of lawyers. Most view lawyers as an expensive solution <br>
> that they<br>
> have no control of. When you hire a lawyer, and go to court, you <br>
> are in a<br>
> very "specialty" situation that frankly the average citizen
does <br>
> not<br>
> comprehend, nor can properly react to. I think we (my club)are
<br>
> absolute<br>
> fools for not getting a lawyer. The Club Pres has said if the
<br>
> JP accepts<br>
> this case we will reconsider obtaining a lawyer. My polling of <br>
> club<br>
> members indicates that people who are against a lawyer have <br>
> never retianed<br>
> a lawyer, but they sure hate them. A few that are for it have <br>
> had a lawyer<br>
> and see the benefits. Of couse the AMA told us to deny all <br>
> claims and not<br>
> to get a lawyer. They willn help us if this got out of hand, but <br>
> not right<br>
> now.<br>
> I find it absurd to believe that a JP would get pissed off that <br>
> we brought<br>
> a lawyer. Hey! We are talking about $5000! I would think that <br>
> the JP would<br>
> think we are idiots for NOT having a lawyer. I see this as a <br>
> method for<br>
> ending this lady's claims now and forever. I think we should go <br>
> after her<br>
> in writing for OUR court costs which include legal fees. I never <br>
> expect<br>
> restitution but I do want her to know that we take this serious <br>
> and will<br>
> fight her to the bitter end. He has has most cash wins, and in <br>
> this case<br>
> we have much more cash. We can spend $1000 in lawyer fees now <br>
> and be done<br>
> with it.<br>
><br>
> I would bet that MOST of you out there who have been to court <br>
> with a<br>
> lawyer are with me and those of you who have never have been to <br>
> court are<br>
> against my thoughts. There is a wild card, which is JP court.
<br>
> Anything<br>
> goes, and for that reason I realize I could be wrong.<br>
><br>
> So we are posting a denial of all claims today.<br>
><br>
> On trespassing...one of of members is a Plano Cop. Here is the <br>
> Police and<br>
> court take on Trespassing. Posted or not posted means nothing. <br>
> You can<br>
> step on anyones property at any time. If the owner asks you to <br>
> leave, you<br>
> must leave and be given the chance to leave. To make it legal, <br>
> and hold up<br>
> in court, a police office must witness this exchange. Now I am <br>
> sure that<br>
> if she tells a person to get off in January and a cop (or other <br>
> witness)<br>
> is there and you show up again in Feb and once again witnessed, <br>
> then you<br>
> are trespassing. Flying over her trailer is not trespassing.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Gray Fowler<br>
> Principal Chemical Engineer<br>
> Composites Engineering <br>
<br>
<br>
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