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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">A small group of R/C Barnstormers in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><?xml:namespace prefix = u1 /><u1:place u2:st="on"><u1:City u2:st="on">Kansas City</st1:place></st1:City></u1:City></u1:place> showed interest in helping judging. We started in winter time studying the rule books (and the AMA tape (this was for IMAC also). As soon the flying season started, we have been doing judge calibration trainings that also are pilot training sections. Before the calibration, the pilots fly for the judges the stick plane. We discuss the details of each maneuver and possible downgrades. After that we fly the schedule. After completing each fly, we discuss the downgrades in detail. Usually, the judge giving the lower score explains the reasons for downgrading. Pilot gets feed back and recognize the reason of downgrades. Repetition and practice has been the secret for success. During the last sections all judges are below 2 point difference in each maneuver. We started to do the Master schedule already. Since Masters has 23 maneuvers, we are doing half of the schedule first since is difficult for the judges remembering all the reason for downgrading. This is working really well. It is very useful for judges training and pilots. Many times we have been reviewing the rule book to remember important details.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">In regard judges ranking, I agree 100%. I developed a spreadsheet that helps to rank the judges. The spreadsheet could be use to rank the judges in each district and at the Nats. to select the judges that should be judging finals or team selection. I could send this spreadsheet to all interested in reviewing the methodology if you send me your e-mail. The spreadsheet was design to do the ranking using the Master schedule. More judges participate in the ranking the program would be more accurate. We could use this opinion group to review this methodology and propose to the NSRCA committee.<o:p></o:p></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Vicente Bortone <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></P>-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Another thing I would like to see is once a year at a Judging seminar, is have a demo flight flown & we all judge this flight. Then in addition to the class we review our scores with everyone. I’m sure we all could pick up a thing or two in this environment.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-INDENT: 6pt"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Have a FAI guy fly advanced & film IF possible. That way nobody gets an advantage or there feelings bruised.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-INDENT: 6pt"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-INDENT: 6pt"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I also wish there was a way at the district levels we could find a way to rank our judging. Have a few rounds flown with a 3 or more panel of judges & get ranking numbers.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Is this possible?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> discussion-request@nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Lance Van Nostrand<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, May 12, 2005 11:40 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> discussion@nsrca.org<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: Judging</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Good question and I'm trying to think of an answer. The problem is, we don't really know how manuvers are being judged as a general rule. If one makes a point to watch a specific flight, and then go peek at their tear sheet, you can find out. Or maybe you might notice that a pilot you think you beat actually beats you could lead you to wonder if those mistakes you saw were also observed by the judge. but as a general rule this is a hard question. </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> I've said it before, but I think not having a way to see the judges scores for a flight in near real time keeps pattern confusing for interested spectators and difficult for us to improve our judging. If this were available, I'm sure most pilots would be intrigued enough to watch a flight and compare the judges score to their own score to see how it compares. Spectators would feel they could follow along and have a feel for how the contest is going and when a particularly good flight was performed. Pilots might also have particular interest in their buddy's performance, or might compare their assessments to those of a respected judge. It might spark other conversations over a beer regarding perceptions, none of which I can see as damaging.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> A thread some time ago described various ways to do this. The easiest was to have "scribes" that held up their hands with a manuver score. Back of the hand was a whole number, palms facing was a half point.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> I bet if we tried this at contests over the next few weeks you'd be more likely to get feedback on your question.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">--Lance</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A title=don.ramsey@cox.net href="mailto:don.ramsey@cox.net">Don Ramsey</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Thursday, May 12, 2005 9:48 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Judging<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Are there any areas that seem to be miss judged at the contest you attend? If you think so, please send me an email at <A href="mailto:don.ramsey@cox.net">don.ramsey@cox.net</A> so I can discuss them in the K-Factor.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Don Ramsey<BR>NSRCA Judging Committee Chairman<BR>AMA 6096 NSRCA 1506<BR>email: <A href="mailto:don.ramsey@cox.net">don.ramsey@cox.net</A><BR>website: <A href="http://members.cox.net/don.ramsey">http://members.cox.net/don.ramsey</A></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></body></html>