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<DIV>It would be interesting to see statistics on how often a plane comes out of failsafe and the pilot regains control before meeting with Mother Earth. It's never happened for me, but admittedly, I don't use the feature often. Had two sport airplanes go into lockout when I did use it, and I watched both spin in.</DIV>
<DIV>I agree a spin recovery isn't the easiest thing to execute down low when you're in a panic, but I'd venture to say it would buy you more time than being in a vertical dive while in lockout would--IF the receiver recovers signal in time. I think it just comes down to dumb luck really, in what attitude/altitude the plane is in when the lockout occurs. The question is what are the odds that your plane would only go into lockout in level flight vs. the middle of a snap, roll, inverted dive, etc. Assuming worst case scenario, i.e., no signal recovery, the spin at least puts the plane back on the field so you can find it, and hopefully the spin would serve to somewhat lessen the descent speed at impact. Maybe a flat spin would be better in that regard.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>My luck with such things dictates that it doesn't really matter what I plan for--the plane's going in, and hard.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Rick</DIV>
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<DIV id=IncrediOriginalMessage><I>-------Original Message-------</I></DIV>
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<DIV id=receivestrings>
<DIV dir=ltr style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>From:</B></I> <A href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>Date:</B></I> Monday, May 16, 2005 08:05:42 PM</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>To:</B></I> <A href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>Subject:</B></I> Re: Fail-safe settings for control surfaces</DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>My problem with the spin setting is that IF the radio comes out of failsafe you will have recovery from an unusual attitude to add to your troubles.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>John Ferrell <BR><A href="http://DixieNC.US">http://DixieNC.US</A><BR></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=knowhow3@bellsouth.net href="mailto:knowhow3@bellsouth.net">Rick Kent</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 16, 2005 5:09 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Fail-safe settings for control surfaces</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
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<DIV>I'd have to agree that a spin with throttle to off or idle, is the only setting that makes sense. It's the only way to make the plane do a known, predictable maneuver without the benefit of the transmitter's guidance. I see people arguing for straight and level all the time, but how will that help if you're in a 90 degree dive or flying the part of a humpty bump or something that temporarily aims the plane towards the pits? I'd much prefer not to have to search hundreds of acres of land for a flyaway aircraft or risk spectators. The spin is the only setting that accomplishes those goals, IMHO.</DIV>
<DIV>Rick </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=IncrediOriginalMessage><I>-------Original Message-------</I></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=receivestrings>
<DIV dir=ltr style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>From:</B></I> <A href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>Date:</B></I> Monday, May 16, 2005 04:21:31 PM</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>To:</B></I> <A href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>Subject:</B></I> Re: Fail-safe settings for control surfaces</DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Hi Larry</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Having had a TX failure, I know from experience the utter helplessness that a pilot feels when his plane is no longer in his control. It sucks big time and I do not wish it on anyone. The most important thing is to ensure the safety of everyone around you as the plane is now simply a projectile on an uncharted course. </FONT><FONT face=Arial></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>These are my thoughts on "Fail Safe" settings... <U>no one else's</U>.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>First and foremost, I consider this a "failure setting" hence the title "Fail" .... not some sort of "glitch-setting" setup to get my plane to maintain a path of flight. </FONT><FONT face=Arial>If your looking for a "glitch safe" setting I don't have any answers...sorry.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Now following the "Fail" part of your dilemma (i.e. your TX has failed for some reason) comes the "Safe" part. This is setting up your controls to make the airplane do a controlled "arrival" without 1) killing or injuring anyone and 2) causing any property damage. Remember the plane is going in regardless and, unless your on short final when the failure occurs (not likely), your going to probably lose the airframe. The intent is to not loose anything else.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Once you come to that realization, the set up is easy. I have a spin programmed into mine. Not a fast one that we see in competition but a slower, winding descent that will cause the aircraft to arrive somewhere within the box (which is where I fly 98% of the time). Slight right aileron, slight right rudder & some up elevator with the throttle at Idle. Will this save my plane? No. Will it provide the most safety for everyone around? I believe it will.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>For those that have PCM RX/TX's and have no Fail Safe setup whatsoever then your odds of failure equalling disaster are high (same as non PCM types in fact). For those with Fail Safe set to "steady state" with idle then your a little better off as the plane will likely maintain a relatively steady path until impact with whatever/whomever it hits. Remember you have no control at all. And for those like myself with the spin setup, I have somewhat better odds of containing the carnage as it's going in within the box. Last time I checked most of the pattern boxes where devoid of obstacles (cars/people etc) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Now under some circumstances the "Spin" scenario I use may not give me a lot of time but I would plan to do a couple things to get my plane back under control. 1) Make sure the TX is "On" and you didn't adjust the trim's with the "On" switch.... seen it done:-) 2) push/hold the antenna into the TX (might be a contact or the antenna has twisted loose... seen it done.) 3) Yell your frequency out loud as someone may have turned "on" accidentally. (Or you forgot to tag up yourself and he's on legitimately ... seen it done. ) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Remember PCM Fail Safe is not the be all and end all. You could find yourself in equal trouble when the RX battery dies because you forgot to charge/check the voltage or the RX fails. It just gives you an way to help prevent possible disaster when the TX fails, nothing more.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>These are my thoughts and I'll leave it to you and anyone else out there to decide how they want to have their plane react when there is a hard TX failure (not glitches). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Safe building & flying,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Dave Reaville<BR>NSRCA I-VP<BR>Canada West District<BR>NSRCA 3156<BR>MAAC 56510 <BR><A href="http://members.shaw.ca/patternwestnews/">http://members.shaw.ca/patternwestnews/</A> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
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<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=larryc4@cebridge.net href="mailto:larryc4@cebridge.net">L Caldwell</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 16, 2005 7:03 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Fail-safe settings for control surfaces</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Hi All,<BR><BR>What is the general concensus for the best setting for the control <BR>surfaces on a pattern plane, and why. I'm going to be put a PCM <BR>receiver in my plane, primarily for the throttle fail-safe, but I'm not <BR>sure what would be best for the control surfaces.<BR><BR>I would like to have the safety of the onlookers, other fliers, and <BR>field neighbors as the main priority, but still have a chance to recover <BR>the plane if it comes out of failsafe.<BR><BR>I've considered these options:<BR><BR>1) Low idle, controls at neutral but with a slight amount of up <BR> elevator. That might be a good way to see brief lockouts, but<BR>the plane could travel a long way if it stayed locked at at high<BR>altitude.<BR><BR>2) Last good signal doesn't seem like a good idea to me if it<BR>stays locked out. You could get anything there.<BR><BR>3) This seems safest for the crowd, but probably bad for the future of <BR>the plane. Low idle or engine off, full spin entry on the <BR>controls.<BR><BR>Any better ideas?<BR><BR>Larry Caldwell<BR>Brookland, Arkansas<BR>=================================================<BR>To access the email archives for this list, go to<BR><A href="http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/">http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/</A><BR>To be removed from this list, go to <A href="http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm">http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm</A><BR>and follow the instructions.<BR><BR>List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from the list.<BR><BR></DIV>
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