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<P>Just a thought on using Aresti notation - it CAN'T be the only graphical presentation for the schedules. if we're serious about encouraging new pilots to try this stuff out, we have to make our diagrams understandable to the average bear. </P>
<P>Aresti IS great, and many communities use it, but it's another (very precise) language. A guy struggling through the classes has enough to learn about building/trimming/positioning/geometry without having to decipher an unfamiliar set of drawings in order to figure out what maneuver to fly. </P>
<P>We should NOT tie membership in the pattern community to learning this new language to understand what maneuvers to fly. If we do it'll only raise the par a bit higher than it already is.</P>
<P>I'll stick to my Powerpoint pictures for the time being (available for current AMA sequences, btw, at <A href="http://www.ocmrc.us/NSRCAD1/home.htm">http://www.ocmrc.us/NSRCAD1/home.htm</A>)</P>
<P>Rick <BR></P><BR><BR><BR>>From: "Ed Alt" <ed_alt@hotmail.com><BR>>Reply-To: discussion@nsrca.org<BR>>To: discussion@nsrca.org<BR>>Subject: Re: new patterns<BR>>Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 13:15:37 -0400<BR>><BR>>John:<BR>>The big advantage of using Aresti is that it leaves nothing to doubt <BR>>about what is supposed to be flown (asuming you draw it right). If <BR>>you know how to read it, there is nothing left to discuss about what <BR>>you are expected to do to fly each figure. I'm probably the last <BR>>guy to want to adopt something just for the sake of doing something <BR>>new, or because it's foreign.<BR>><BR>>BTW, several of my friends from my IMAC days expressed a first time <BR>>interest in Pattern after I talked their ears off about it. They <BR>>WANT Aresti's. That's
the language that they are used to seeing.<BR>><BR>>Regards<BR>>Ed<BR>><BR>>>From: "John Ferrell" <johnferrell@earthlink.net><BR>>>Reply-To: discussion@nsrca.org<BR>>>To: <discussion@nsrca.org><BR>>>Subject: Re: new patterns<BR>>>Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:25:30 -0400<BR>>><BR>>>I understand that many folks read and prefer the Areisti diagrams. <BR>>>To me they are a giant step back and are related to hieroglyphics <BR>>>found on cave walls. I bought a used Chrysler minivan nearly a year <BR>>>ago and it is still not clear to me what all the 'glyphs mean. I <BR>>>can recognize the heated seat switch now, but I still don't know <BR>>>which is warmer, the one with three dotted lines through it or the <BR>>>one with one dotted line through it.<BR>>><BR>>>As near as I can figure,
there are lots of folks enamored with all <BR>>>things foreign!<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>John Ferrell<BR>>>http://DixieNC.US<BR>>><BR>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Troy A. Newman" <BR>>><troy_newman@msn.com><BR>>>To: <discussion@nsrca.org><BR>>>Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 1:30 AM<BR>>>Subject: Re: new patterns<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>>List et al,<BR>>>><BR>>>>The reality of this is the work that was done was submitted to the <BR>>>>President<BR>>>>of the NSRCA. Before I was ready to release documents to the <BR>>>>general public,<BR>>>>I was waiting for an approval by the Board. Not that there is <BR>>>>anything<BR>>>>hidden about it. Just that the Board commissioned the committee <BR>>>>and it<BR>>>>reports
back to the Board. I have not heard any comments from the <BR>>>>Board.<BR>>>>Once the Board said OK it looks like you fulfilled the charter <BR>>>>that you were<BR>>>>given.....then I was going to release the documents on the <BR>>>>Internet. It is<BR>>>>my firm belief that the Board will be as pleased with the results <BR>>>>as I. If<BR>>>>there were serious issues I would not have submitted the results <BR>>>>regardless<BR>>>>of the Deadline. The old idea of the cook not showing the cake <BR>>>>until he<BR>>>>verifies the kids name is spelled correctly applies here. The Cake <BR>>>>is on its<BR>>>>way the work is complete. I don't want to post something and then <BR>>>>have it<BR>>>>change in 2-3 days. This adds confusion to the situation.
These <BR>>>>are NSRCA<BR>>>>proposals and as such the NSRCA Board of Directors should know <BR>>>>what is being<BR>>>>done before its released to the hungry crowd. This is a formality <BR>>>>that was<BR>>>>agreed upon before work was begun. June 1st was the deadline So <BR>>>>its been<BR>>>>just a few days since it was sent out to the VPs from Lamar. Lance <BR>>>>I<BR>>>>appreciate your comments as a member of the Board.<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>>For all of you that don't know. The new sequences will be <BR>>>>presented in both<BR>>>>the traditional words as we have used in Pattern and also Aresti <BR>>>>as a<BR>>>>graphical shorthand. IMAC uses this graphical shorthand <BR>>>>exclusively. Our<BR>>>>section of the hobby is a
little different, in the way things are <BR>>>>done. The<BR>>>>words and the Aresti in FAI carry equal weight. A main reason for <BR>>>>this is<BR>>>>language barriers. The Aresti is more difficult to read sometimes, <BR>>>>but once<BR>>>>you send a little time with it begins to make a huge amount of <BR>>>>sense. We in<BR>>>>the F3A class flying unknowns use the Aresti to tell us the <BR>>>>general<BR>>>>shapes...what is this thing suppose to resemble? It works well. We <BR>>>>as a<BR>>>>committee felt that Aresti was a good thing to introduce to AMA <BR>>>>pattern. So<BR>>>>I have the program and am currently getting all the Aresti <BR>>>>documents done.<BR>>>>This is in addition to the traditional descriptions that we have
<BR>>>>had<BR>>>>forever. So its like getting Peas and Carrots. Both serve a <BR>>>>purpose and will<BR>>>>help define the figures they represent.<BR>>>><BR>>>>To quickly answer a couple questions. FAI current has the golf <BR>>>>ball and the<BR>>>>reverse golf ball in its catalog. It is basically a vertical gold <BR>>>>fish or<BR>>>>Half of a Cuban 8 that is vertical. The 45's cross with the roll <BR>>>>elements<BR>>>>and the loop is 3/4 of a circle. A Golf Ball has the loop at the <BR>>>>top. So the<BR>>>>model pulls or pushes to a 45 upline performs the required roll <BR>>>>element on<BR>>>>center if there is a roll. Then Loops 270degs to the downline 45 <BR>>>>and<BR>>>>performs the required roll element on
center.The rolls cross at <BR>>>>center like<BR>>>>a Cuban 8. So if you were to draw a Cuban 8 with only one of the <BR>>>>loops but<BR>>>>both 45's...then turn it to the loop side up it looks like a golf <BR>>>>ball<BR>>>>sitting on a tee. A Reverse Golf ball as in the proposed Masters <BR>>>>for the<BR>>>>Survey is this same figure but from the top and the loop portion <BR>>>>is on the<BR>>>>bottom. IMAC and the current FAI patterns have a gold fish in <BR>>>>them. The golf<BR>>>>ball is a vertical gold fish.<BR>>>><BR>>>>Spring Coil. Basically this a variation on a figure 9....models <BR>>>>performs<BR>>>>1-1/2 loops at the top of a vertical upline. The figure in <BR>>>>question has the<BR>>>>pilots
option for inside or outside 1-1/2loop. Basically a figure <BR>>>>9 but<BR>>>>instead of 270degs of loop its 540degs. This is 540degs of a <BR>>>>circle to come<BR>>>>back down on a vertical. So its a figure 9 style maneuver that <BR>>>>starts and<BR>>>>ends at base altitude.<BR>>>><BR>>>>Descriptors for new things are following however there are not <BR>>>>many new<BR>>>>figures.<BR>>>><BR>>>>I know these have been flown a bunch. Both the guys in the groups <BR>>>>that<BR>>>>developed each set flew them and I as well as others flew them <BR>>>>too.<BR>>>><BR>>>>There are no secrets and everything will be posted and available <BR>>>>to all. I<BR>>>>have been fighting a computer that locks up everytime I
open<BR>>>>word-excel-Explorer-visio. Luckily Email works. I hope Dell will <BR>>>>have the<BR>>>>solution on Friday of this coming week when the new box arrives. <BR>>>>Amazing how<BR>>>>Win98 is not really supported and you get told if your machine is <BR>>>>5yrs old<BR>>>>its a piece of crap and throw it away. When my new machine gets <BR>>>>going I will<BR>>>>get a finished set of documents to answer your questions. Aresti <BR>>>>and English<BR>>>>explanations will help clarify the problems.<BR>>>><BR>>>>Lastly I want to thank the guys on the Teams that created the <BR>>>>sequences. You<BR>>>>will have all their names and credit will be handed out to the <BR>>>>guys that did<BR>>>>the grunt work. I only gathered the info and combined
it. A few <BR>>>>changes were<BR>>>>made on individual figures to meet KF goals or improve the <BR>>>>flow....but the<BR>>>>meat and potatoes work that has been done is the ideas and goals <BR>>>>of about<BR>>>>15-20 people. I think you all will be as proud of the outcome as I <BR>>>>am.<BR>>>><BR>>>>So thanks for the Hard Work from you guys on the Team!<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>>Troy Newman<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Smith" <BR>>>><dentdoc007@adelphia.net><BR>>>>To: <discussion@nsrca.org><BR>>>>Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 11:11 AM<BR>>>>Subject: RE: new patterns<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>>>Lamar has
them.<BR>>>>><BR>>>>>-----Original Message-----<BR>>>>>From: discussion-request@nsrca.org <BR>>>>>[mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org]<BR>>>>>On Behalf Of Jim Ivey<BR>>>>>Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 1:32 PM<BR>>>>>To: discussion@nsrca.org<BR>>>>>Subject: new patterns<BR>>>>><BR>>>>> Hey<BR>>>>>Where can I find the new proposed patterns?Guess I am overlooking <BR>>>>>them.<BR>>>>><BR>>>>>Jim Ivey<BR>>>>><BR>>>>>=================================================<BR>>>>>To access the email archives for this list, go to<BR>>>>>http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/<BR>>>>>To be removed from this list, go to
<BR>>>>>http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm<BR>>>>>and follow the instructions.<BR>>>>><BR>>>>>List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from <BR>>>>>the<BR>>>>>list.<BR>>>>><BR>>>>>=================================================<BR>>>>>To access the email archives for this list, go to<BR>>>>>http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/<BR>>>>>To be removed from this list, go to <BR>>>>>http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm<BR>>>>>and follow the instructions.<BR>>>>><BR>>>>>List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from
<BR>>>>>the<BR>>>>list.<BR>>>>><BR>>>>><BR>>>>=================================================<BR>>>>To access the email archives for this list, go to<BR>>>>http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/<BR>>>>To be removed from this list, go to <BR>>>>http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm<BR>>>>and follow the instructions.<BR>>>><BR>>>>List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from <BR>>>>the list.<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>=================================================<BR>>>To access the email archives for this list, go to<BR>>>http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/<BR>>>To be removed from this list, go to <BR>>>http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm<BR>>>and
follow the instructions.<BR>>><BR>>>List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from <BR>>>the list.<BR>>><BR>><BR>><BR>>=================================================<BR>>To access the email archives for this list, go to<BR>>http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/<BR>>To be removed from this list, go to <BR>>http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm<BR>>and follow the instructions.<BR>><BR>>List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from <BR>>the list.<BR>><BR></DIV></div></html>