<html><body>
<DIV>Funny Bob!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'm glad that comment enlightened you Jim,but it sounds like hyberbole to me. Some planes handle better in wind than others. As a designer I've flown the same plane with different wing/stab incidences and had it affect the tracking. Mostly I've found staying near 0-0 is good, but look at a Focus - it has ridiculous side thrust and extreme incidences and flys fine. Of course setting one up at 0-0 might fly fine too, I don't know. I guess I was hoping for some insight on what to do to maximize the tracking ability of a plane that otherwise is in trim.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks. Your posts are always great.</DIV>
<DIV>--Lance</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>District 6 AVP <BR>www.aeroslave.com</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR><BR>> THAT's an easy one, Jim. Most of my airplanes DO "fly like Trucks", or buses, <BR>> or .... <BR>> > <BR>> > From: Jim_Woodward@beaerospace.com <BR>> > Date: 2005/06/14 Tue AM 09:48:03 EDT <BR>> > To: discussion@nsrca.org <BR>> > Subject: Re: Clipped, Electric weight, E-Impact first flights <BR>> > <BR>> > Hi Lance, <BR>> > <BR>> > I'll just say one thing that has stuck with me - which is my analogy to a <BR>> > lot of themes which I can't remember word for word. If your plane doesn't <BR>> > drive lines with a stability or determination reminiscent of a freight <BR>> > train or loaded diesel truck, your plane is not flying as well as it can. <BR>> > <BR>> > Jim W. <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > patterndude@comcast.net <BR>> > Sent by: discussion-request@nsrca.org <BR>> > 06/13/2005 05:11 PM <BR>> > Please respond to <BR>> > discussion@nsrca.org <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > To <BR>> > discussion@nsrca.org <BR>> > cc <BR>> > <BR>> > Subject <BR>> > Re: Clipped, Electric weight, E-Impact first flights <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > Excellent post. so what did Tony F say about trimming that you can apply <BR>> > to all planes? <BR>> > --Lance <BR>> > <BR>> > -- <BR>> > District 6 AVP <BR>> > www.aeroslave.com <BR>> > <BR>> > -------------- Original message -------------- <BR>> > <BR>> > (2nd attempt) <BR>> > Jim O., <BR>> > <BR>> > I'm not sure what gear box I have, as I'm not really familiar with the <BR>> > previous Hacker motors. I do see some bolt heads on the back of the <BR>> > motor, which would suggest to
me that they run through the motor and into <BR>> > the gear box in the front. At the front of the gear box, all you see is <BR>> > the bearing with the actual receiving holes for the motor-mounting screws. <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > I flew the Impact 4 flights this weekend. I did this while flying my <BR>> > Aggressor, and breaking in a new OS 140 RX. It was one of the funnest, <BR>> > BEST pattern day's I've ever had. I flew the E-Impact and immediately <BR>> > liked the power and speed control (and ease). The Impact itself, didn't <BR>> > jump off the board as a perfectly trimmed plane, so I knew I had a little <BR>> > work to do. After the first flight, the concept was DEFINITELY proven, <BR>> > and I quickly deduced that I need more batteries (first flight was <BR>> > Saturday evening). After this first flight (with John B. from Surinam <BR>> > watching), we determined the need to paint the bottom of the wings and <BR>> > canopy. We ran to Lowes and bought some florescent red/orange to paint <BR>> > the stab and wing tips, and we also painted the canopy metallic silver. <BR>> > Also determined that the plane was tail heavy quite a bit. Anyone <BR>> > familiar with the Impact thread on RCU knows exactly what I'm talking <BR>> > about in regards to the Impact. <BR>> > <BR>> > Sunday morning with CG moved forward, the plane flew better and the small <BR>> > amount of color we put on the plane definitely made a huge difference. <BR>> > After this second flight, also determined that the CG was still too far <BR>> > aft, and that the battery needed to be moved forward (at this point, knife <BR>> > edge needed no mixing), and the plane was carrying a small amount of <BR>> > aileron trim. <BR>> > <BR>> > Then, I flew the Aggressor for the first flight with the OS 140 RX and <BR>> > 17x10 APC. With th 17x10, the OS was nearly "super-sonic" compared to th
e <BR>> > Impact, however immediately, the Aggressor's trimmed status and <BR>> > "locked-on" look/feel was evident (as anyone who has seen the plane fly in <BR>> > D3 would attest to. Due to charging time of the E-Impact, I swapped props <BR>> > to the Mez 18x10, adjusted the throttle curve, and started moving the <BR>> > speed envelope of the Aggressor down to match the Impact in a couple more <BR>> > flights. My first thought was that if I had the E-setup in the Aggressor, <BR>> > it would be an unstoppable machine! (Aggressor weight without fuel is 10 <BR>> > lbs 13 oz). <BR>> > <BR>> > Time for another flight on the Impact. I flew through PO5 this time, and <BR>> > started getting used to the E-power curve, some rates, etc. The forward <BR>> > CG move started to pay off, and the plane was drawing better lines (but <BR>> > still not like my glow plane, which is understandable as this was only the <BR>> > third flight on the model). After this flight, again, decided the CG <BR>> > needed to go MORE forward. Also, we determined that the right wing tip <BR>> > needed about 14 grams of weight to laterally balance the model (a step I <BR>> > did not do in the garage, we added the tip weight at the field). <BR>> > <BR>> > Back to the Aggressor: I flew two more flight back to back on the <BR>> > Aggressor, each time improving the throttle curve to make it easier to <BR>> > match the envelop of the Impact. The OS ran perfect, and I'm sad that <BR>> > after 5 years of screwing with other engines, to have not just spent the <BR>> > little bit of extra money and ran the OS all along. Through each flight <BR>> > (90 degrees, 90% humidity), the OS ran superb. Inflight throttling was <BR>> > great, you could tell the motor was not getting hot, and it was making <BR>> > ridiculous vertical power. (by the way, this was on an OS A5 plug, C.P. <BR>> > 25% pro-pattern
, and ES pipe). The OS runs VERY smooth with a crazy low <BR>> > idle. I'm VERY happy with how it ran - not a single dead stick through <BR>> > its first 5 flights - nothing but awesome performance. The locked in <BR>> > (trimmed) status of the Aggressor, now flying in the slower speed <BR>> > enveloped, had convinced John that this was still the "ticket" as compared <BR>> > to where the Impact was after 3 flights. <BR>> > <BR>> > Back to the E-Impact!!!!!!!!!! For this flight, the 6000 Pro-Lite T.P. <BR>> > battery was moved as far forward as possible (just behind motor). This <BR>> > flight showed some incredible potential. In this CG config., the Impact <BR>> > was driving lines similar to the Aggressor (up, down, 45's, etc), and <BR>> > rolling VERY well. Also, the wing tip weight on the right wing made EVERY <BR>> > SINGLE MANEUVER look better. The wings were much more locked on, the <BR>> > plane rolled better, exited snaps better, spinned better. This was a <BR>> > great trimming lesson to me, as the day was getting cross-windy (worse) <BR>> > through out the day as the ruminants of the tropical storm passed through, <BR>> > however in the worsening conditions, this was the BEST of the flights.. <BR>> > After this flight, John immediately was convinced that this was indeed <BR>> > going to be a solid backup or first plane for the nats. I'm still going <BR>> > to move the receiver battery forward now though, and probably make a <BR>> > lighter rudder (which wouldn't hurt things anyway). (hacker controller <BR>> > has 3 degrees timing). <BR>> > <BR>> > Charging: I alternated by charging from the car battery, then letting the <BR>> > car idle for the next charge (guess what - no big deal to do this if <BR>> > necessary). However my limitation is that I only have one Astro 109 as <BR>> > the second one has not arrived yet. Thus, instead of 45 minute turnar
ound <BR>> > times, I was 1.5 hrs between flights. <BR>> > <BR>> > Impact: I followed some RCU advice and started with a CG on the center of <BR>> > the wing tube, without wings on. This is in serious error. However, the <BR>> > plane will dive mildly when in inverted flight, and it gives the <BR>> > impression through simple tests that the CG is correct. With this CG, the <BR>> > plane flys off the tail. In radius, the tails squats and the plane will <BR>> > fly tail low. After I was done with it, the plane was following the nose, <BR>> > driving excellent lines, similar to the Aggressor (still thanking Tony F. <BR>> > for the trimming help on my Lazulite,which has now gone into all my <BR>> > planes!). <BR>> > <BR>> > Glow / Electric: In a quick comparison, a trimmed plane is what you need. <BR>> > Electric power itself will help with presentation and probably hide some <BR>> > airplane tendencies (if bad), due to the smaller speed envelope. Although, <BR>> > the power and the plane are working together, they are still a bit <BR>> > separate. I guess I'm trying to say that a poorly trimmed plane is going <BR>> > to hurt you no matter what motor you have in it. I'm guessing purely <BR>> > guessing now though, that if two identical planes, both completely <BR>> > trimmed, were equipped with glow and electric, that the E-setup would take <BR>> > the cake as it would allow more of a "show-casing" of the maneuver set. <BR>> > More to follow......... <BR>> > <BR>> > Thanks, welcome questions, comments, public or private. <BR>> > <BR>> > Jim W. <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> <BR>> Bob Pastorello, El Reno, OK, USA <BR>> rcaerobob@cox.net <BR>> www.rcaerobats.net <BR>> <BR>> ================================================= <BR>> To access the email archives for this list, go to <BR>> http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discu
ssion/ <BR>> To be removed from this list, go to http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm <BR>> and follow the instructions. <BR>> <BR>> List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from the list. <BR>> </BLOCKQUOTE></body></html>