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<DIV>Terry, you are being generous. I actually timed and recorded a bunch of
them at the last contest and never saw a 15 sec. difference that could have been
saved. I intend to do this at every contest this year, and send a data file
to all the Contest Board members during the next rules cycle. I think the
rationale used to support the current proposal was false and it never was backed
up by real data. Actually when you factored in the currently required
maneuvers at TO, and at Landing, the overall total has to be longer. I
guess they were allocating a large amount of time saved by the
Gun and Go approach now being advocated/accepted.</DIV>
<DIV>Jerry</DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=amad2terry@juno.com href="mailto:amad2terry@juno.com">Terry
Terrenoire</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=discussion@nsrca.org
href="mailto:discussion@nsrca.org">discussion@nsrca.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 13, 2005 4:18 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Landing Direction; Spins,
and Snaps. . .</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT id=role_document face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV>Don: </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I could not agree more! </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>We certainly ARE going to see a deterioration of these flight
elements.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As far as speeding up the contest, lets take a look.</DIV>
<DIV>Average copntest today 24?? fliers. Maybe we save 15 seconds per TO. If
using 2 lines, that saves a whopping 3 minutes per round. In four rounds on
Sat you will save 12 minutes!!!!! That is ONE flight, maybe 2 Sportsman
flights.</DIV>
<DIV>OK, you say you save 30 seconds.........double it!!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As to the safety issue, most fields have the pilots standing behind a
barrier of some type, there is a caller to keep track, and in nearly 20 years
of doing this, I have never seen anyone hit, yes, some reasonably close calls,
but in reality even these were more scary than dangerous. The degrading of the
TO and ldg scoring may even result in MORE of these scares!!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>IMHO!!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Terry T.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 16:26:45 EDT <A
href="mailto:AtwoodDon@aol.com">AtwoodDon@aol.com</A> writes:</DIV>
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<DIV>
<DIV>Well, if we are going to this type scoring, I vote for a couple of
throw out or King's X maneuvers per flight, pilot's choice of course.
Best 20 or so maneuvers counts?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Seriously, I have been trying to catch up on the long list of emails
pertaining to judging or not judging TO and Landings with a lot of good
points made on both sidespertaining to faster contests and safer
environments. Maybe my grey hair is showing, but I guess I disagree
with the comments about TO/landing not being aerobatic maneuvers, not
important, etc. My opinion is they are the most critical 2 maneuvers
per flight and barring radio problems, probably are most responsible for
aircraft damage at any contest. Therefore, I think they should be
judged (forcing the pilot to actually practice them) and quite frankly I
believe they should have something greater than 1 as a multiplier.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>These two maneuvers require the pilot to control the aircraft in a
rapidly changing airspeed situation and demonstrate control during those
changes. Takes all 4 control axis, etc. Kind of a back to the
basics opinion, but we have all seen the onset of the blast it into the air
and hope it hits the runway when it comes down approach. I for one do
not believe this approach improves anything, may even cause more
deterioration in actual 'flying' skills in our entry and mid-level
classes.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>OK, let me get my fire suit button up here...... OK, I'm
ready..... ;-)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Don Atwood</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 6/13/2005 1:09:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
vanputte@cox.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>On
Jun 13, 2005, at 2:26 PM, Cameron Smith wrote:<BR><BR>> Top-Hats &
Humpty Bumps also!!! If you aint Hovering you aint flying! <BR>>
(Oops wrong discussion group;-)<BR><BR>Well, as long as we're voting here,
I vote for non-scored Diamond 8s in <BR>the Master class. Everyone
should just admire the beauty of the <BR>maneuver and not be critical and
judgmental.<BR><BR>Ron Van Putte<BR><BR>> <BR>> -----Original
Message-----<BR>> From: discussion-request@nsrca.org <BR>>
[mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Keith Hoard<BR>>
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 11:39 AM<BR>> To:
discussion@nsrca.org<BR>> Subject: RE: Landing Direction; Spins, and
Snaps. . .<BR>> <BR>> I think we should stop scoring spins and
snaps, also. What do you <BR>> guys think?? <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Keith L. Hoard<BR>>
Cordova, TN<BR>> khoard@midsouth.rr.com<BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>><BR>> From: discussion-request@nsrca.org
<BR>> [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Keith
Black<BR>> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 10:19 AM<BR>> To:
discussion@nsrca.org<BR>> Subject: Re: Landing Direction<BR>>
<BR>> Marguerite,<BR>> <BR>> Actually, I don't think
you're alone on this issue. The NSRCA poll <BR>> showed overwhelmingly
that the membership wanted scored t/o and <BR>> landings as did the
public outcry after the majority's desires were <BR>> disregarded.
Apparently even the contest board would have voted to <BR>> keep the
old rule but the question was worded in such a way to confuse <BR>> two
of the contest board members.<BR>> <BR>> Now that the new
messed up rule has caused so much confusion I think <BR>> everyone is
getting so fed-up with it that many would rather have <BR>> nothing at
all than what we have now. To me this has more to do with <BR>> being
sick of all the ridiculous discussions than a real desire of <BR>>
pattern pilots to not score t/o and landings.<BR>> <BR>> I for
one have been paying attention to take-offs and landings this <BR>>
year and find it a real shame that we don't have those beautiful <BR>>
centered liftoffs and gentle climb outs. The new guys coming into <BR>>
sportsman will miss out on this discipline.<BR>> <BR>>
Keith<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>> ----- Original Message
-----<BR>>> From: MargueriteVG@aol.com<BR>>> To:
patternrules@earthlink.net ; discussion@nsrca.org<BR>>> Sent:
Monday, June 13, 2005 8:58 AM<BR>>> Subject: Re: Landing
Direction<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> Good
Morning...... oh oh here goes...<BR>>> I agree it is
important to encourage good landings and take and I <BR>>>
will add to your statement... why not all classes with
take off and <BR>>> landing. Yes, for the most part the pilots
in the higher classes <BR>>> will ace the landing. I
have seen the higher classes mess up on the <BR>>> landings (yes and
almost hit me while I was in a contest flying)<BR>>> Take off
and landing perfectly all the time is the goal for any <BR>>>
pilot. This seems to be getting so involved. I know I am out for the
<BR>>> most part alone on this issue and that is fine with
me. ITs just <BR>>> that I would like to see the
pattern community respect this issue and <BR>>> set a good example
for all pilots joining on to Precision Aerobatics.<BR>>> A
well done take off and a well done landing is certainly part of
<BR>>> flying aerobatic competition in all classes. Its the
start ... and it <BR>>> should be. I was glad to see someone
out there was thinking along <BR>>> the same lines here.<BR>>>
Marguerite<BR>>> <BR>>> In a message dated 6/13/2005
8:23:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>>> patternrules@earthlink.net
writes:<BR>>>><BR>>>> > Personally Jerry,
I'd like to see us score landings and take <BR>>>> offs
for<BR>>>> Sportsman and Intermediate. Given the
k-factor of their total <BR>>>> schedule<BR>>>>
it's a meaningful part, and the ability to land well in a high
<BR>>>> crosswind is<BR>>>> something they'll need
to be comfortable with, so it's worth <BR>>>> rewarding
ann<BR>>>> motivating the practice required to do it
well.<BR><BR><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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