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Hey Dean,
<BR>I hope you're not forgetting that some of us are "the supposed experts".
<P>Dean Pappas wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> <SPAN class=137015816-29072005>Hey Don,</SPAN><SPAN class=137015816-29072005>Yes
... or is that I'm just jaded? </SPAN><SPAN class=137015816-29072005>The
old Procedure Turn and Figure 8 were "mostly useful" maneuvers.</SPAN><SPAN class=137015816-29072005><SPAN class=137015816-29072005>On
a windy day, those were real skill maneuvers, but space consumptive.</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN class=137015816-29072005><SPAN class=137015816-29072005></SPAN>In
good conditions, they did little to help decide a contest.</SPAN><SPAN class=137015816-29072005>That
problem is that now one of our design constraints is the lessening our
noise footprint.</SPAN><SPAN class=137015816-29072005></SPAN><SPAN class=137015816-29072005></SPAN><SPAN class=137015816-29072005>Now
if we could just convince FAI to make all rollers in a vertical plane!</SPAN><SPAN class=137015816-29072005>You
see, even the supposed experts don't think some things through.</SPAN><SPAN class=137015816-29072005></SPAN><SPAN class=137015816-29072005>best
regards,</SPAN><SPAN class=137015816-29072005> Dean</SPAN> <FONT FACE="Times New Roman">Dean
Pappas</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr"><FONT FACE="Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><B>From:</B> discussion-request@nsrca.org [<A HREF="mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org">mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org</A>]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>AtwoodDon@aol.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 29, 2005 11:21 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [SPAM] Re: 2007 Advanced Patterns</FONT></DIV>
<FONT FACE="Arial">Hey Dean, do you think our gray hair (or lack thereof)
is starting to show? I think Sportsman should try the old Procedure
Turn and Horizontal Eight (whoops, can't do that one, it heads for the
judges at the end and would be way too long ;-) But talk about
'exposure', yikes!!!</FONT><FONT FACE="Arial">Don</FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"> </FONT><FONT FACE="Arial">In
a message dated 7/29/2005 6:59:34 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, d.pappas@kodeos.com
writes:</FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px"><SPAN class=731095613-29072005><FONT FACE="Arial">Hi
Tom,</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=731095613-29072005><FONT FACE="Arial">I especially
agree with the point you make about the teaching of the "multiples" maneuvers.
The third roll is the one that demonstrates continued control!</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=731095613-29072005><FONT FACE="Arial">The
third loop adds time (which may have been the problem) but it adds exposure!
Exposure time, in a maneuver, is a large part of the difficulty (as opposed
to complexity) and this is moreso in the wind.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=731095613-29072005><FONT FACE="Arial">Regards,</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=731095613-29072005><FONT FACE="Arial">
Dean</FONT></SPAN><FONT FACE="Arial"> </FONT><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">Dean
Pappas</FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr"><FONT FACE="Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><B>From:</B> discussion-request@nsrca.org [<A HREF="mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org">mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org</A>]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>AtwoodDon@aol.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 29, 2005 9:40 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><B>To:</B> discussion@nsrca.org</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [SPAM] Re: 2007 Advanced Patterns</FONT></DIV>
<FONT FACE="Arial">Well, I have avoided jumping in here for as long as
I can but here goes.</FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"> </FONT><FONT FACE="Arial">First,
the proposals as presented are not cast in stone, nor mandatory changes
to the current schedules, they are sets of proposed changes of which we
are asking the pattern community (not just NSRCA members) to express their
opinion by selecting one of the alternatives in each class (as a recommendation
to AMA). As previously stated in this discussion group, anyone (and
everyone) is free to submit their own proposed sequences to the AMA for
consideration. However, we had hoped this approach would generate
a preferred solution representative of most of our pattern community and
help pave the way to improving the logical progression thru sequences.</FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"> </FONT><FONT FACE="Arial">Second,
these proposed sequences are not one person's idea, they were generated
by a committee with many hours of thought and discussion and actual flying
of the sequences to come up with not one, but two alternatives in each
class. This was done by volunteers for the committee that spent many,
many hours working on this. I doubt any single individual out there
would have come up with a similar approach and results.</FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"> </FONT><FONT FACE="Arial">Third,
I was involved in early discussions about the approach to this exercise
and spent quite a bit of time discussing the intent of this exercise with
Troy. He and the entire Sequences Committee were very focused on generating
new sequences as balanced as possible, but (get this, it is a very important
part) also generating sequences focused on building progressive basic-intermediate-advanced
flying skills that actually require the pilot to 'fly' the plane rather
than relying on being able to bang the stick over and come out the other
side of the maneuver. In my opinion, about 10-12 years ago, we got
so focused on making it easy to get into pattern with simple sequences
we lost the part about learning some of the flying requirements.
What happened to having to do MULTIPLE loops or rolls. Anyone can
close their eyes and do one loop or roll then recover with recovery being
the most active part of the maneuver. The proposed sequences (either
in each class) provide a logical and balanced (as much as practical) progression
from sets of skill sets to the next level. I would even guess existing
pattern flyers in the entry classes may find the new sequences to actually
be more difficult to fly (notice the word fly) well than the current sequences,
however, in doing so they will have learned more about actual flying than
they do now.</FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"> </FONT><FONT FACE="Arial">Sorry
for the long winded message here, but I would ask everyone to consider
the intentions of the proposed sequences as well as the sequences themselves.
I believe our current sequence schedules actually create more of a gap
between the entry level classes and the higher classes because the lower
class sequences actually lack some of the building blocks of developing
flying skills which forces the competitors to take larger 'skill' steps
as they approach the higher classes. The proposed sequences smooth
those gaps more evenly and introduce maneuvers designed to enhance those
building blocks rather than just making it easy to get thru the entry sequences.</FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"> </FONT><FONT FACE="Arial">Personally,
I think the Sequences Committee led by Troy Newman are to be commended
for the thought they put into these proposals as well as their personal
time discussing, flying, reworking and finalizing these proposals.
Obviously thankless work as witnessed by some of the comments and sniping
that has gone on recently on this group. Anyway, I have made my selections
on the sequences, hope you all have to. Thanks Troy and group, most
of us appreciate your efforts and intentions.</FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"> </FONT><FONT FACE="Arial">Don
Atwood</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<FONT FACE="Arial"> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
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