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Georgie:<br>
Thanks for scratching my curiosity bump. Nat Penton and I had a couple
of exchanges, where I allowed that yes, trying to tune out pitch in
knife edge by using CG alone could bring along with it many unpleasant
surprises. It might work for minor situations, but as for major ones,
I guess you'd have to look farther.<br>
<br>
Bill Glaze<br>
<br>
George Kennie wrote:<br>
<blockquote cite="mid42FF8154.BA4E3CE9@gis.net" type="cite">Yeah Bill,
<br>
I remember Hanson trimming this way. He shifts the C.G. 'til he gets
zero pitch couple on K.E., but on a plane that pitches to the belly
strongly
you end up with a plane that pulls to the canopy on down lines and is
elevator
pitch sensitive to speed changes because you end up carrying too much
up
trim. It can really go round and round.
<br>
G.
<p>Bill Glaze wrote:
</p>
<blockquote type="CITE"> Would a change in CG have any effect on the
tucking? r did yu ever try it? Just curious. Bill
<p>George Kennie wrote:
</p>
<blockquote cite="mid42FD3C09.B0F5B290@gis.net" type="cite">Really
can't
remember, Bill, but I think it was around 35%.
<p>Bill Glaze wrote:
</p>
<blockquote type="CITE"> Georgie: CG? Bill Glaze
<p>George Kennie wrote:
</p>
<blockquote cite="mid42FB7D25.6A03EA5B@gis.net" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Yeah, and then there's my Pro's Acq that has the wing ,stab on the datum line
with everything at zero and it pitches to the belly at 20%. Go figure.
Bob Richards wrote:</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Dean,
I agree with everything you said.
I have a couple of rather simplistic theories that
seem to work well when it comes to explaining
roll/pitch coupling. Take two airplanes with zero
dihedral, one a high wing and one a low wing. The high
wing will have proverse coupling, the low wing will
have adverse coupling. My theory is that the fuselage
will have high pressure on one side and low pressure
on the other side, when the rudder is deflected. Not
unlike a wing. :-) There will be a natural line of
separation close to the center of the fuselage (with
no wing or stab). If the wing is not centered in the
fuselage (close to this line of separation) there will
be a difference in pressure between the top and bottom
of the wing as a result, and will be opposite between
the left/right wing panels. This will result in a roll
coupling. Same goes for the stab location, a low stab
location will pitch to canopy, a high stab will pitch
away from the canopy. (And it will also have a small
affect on roll coupling). My Cap21 pitched horribly to
the belly in knife edge, took about 30% mix as I
recall. Not surprising since the stab was on top of
the fuse.
The real problem with using mix is that the required
mix is never linear. A small rudder deflection might
not need much mix %, but large rudder deflections can
make the plane really stupid. :-)
In my opinion, the wing/stab position and dihedral
have a much larger effect on coupling than the
vertical CG. Also, it is much easier/practical to
affect a change in the dihedral and stab location than
it is to significantly change the vertical CG
location. Think about it, if you lower the wing, you
have lowered the vertical CG which you would think
would cause proverse roll, but it usually (always?)
causes the opposite.
Bob R.
--- Dean Pappas <a href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"><d.pappas@kodeos.com></a> wrote:</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi Nat,
Just a further complication, that if I remember the
original E-mail, may be useful.
If your plane pitches to the belly AND rolls adverse
with rudder, or pitches to the canopy AND rolls
proverse, then it is possible and likely that you
have only one problem, and not two. If you fix the
pitching, then the roll may be reduced, or if you
stop the roll, the pitching may be reduced. In
general, if a rudder to aileron couple fixes things,
you will have less interesting behavior with rudder
corrections in looping maneuvers. This is because
most designs have an angle-of-attack sensitive
yaw-to-roll couple. That knowledge can save your
plane if you ever take off with the ailerons
disconnected: slow down, get the nose up, and turn
with the rudder. At high AOA, the plane will roll
like a high wing trainer (well sorta!)
Regards,
Dean</pre>
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