<html><body>
<DIV>Here we are in yet another of the long strings about </DIV>
<DIV>observing and judging snaps. They come around about </DIV>
<DIV>as often as seasons.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It's pretty clear that as a community we don't yet agree on the </DIV>
<DIV>exact criteria for snaps; or have the observation skills to </DIV>
<DIV>interpret the airplane behaviour; (which is extremely difficult to </DIV>
<DIV>do in the fractional second the maneuver takes) or the proficiency </DIV>
<DIV>to match the observed behaviour to the correct downgrades.</DIV>
<DIV>Most of us can add to this list of issues.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Yet, those imperfect judgments for high K-Factor snaps </DIV>
<DIV>continue to have a high impact on round scores.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>How about reducing the K-Factor for snap maneuvers in</DIV>
<DIV>AMA schedules? We still fly them, we still judge them, </DIV>
<DIV>we still invest as much of our resources as we want </DIV>
<DIV>into improving flying and judging snaps.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>And.....when we get it right, <VBG> we can put the </DIV>
<DIV>high K-Factors back in place.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ron Lockhart</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR><BR>> <BR>> On Aug 16, 2005, at 12:14 PM, Ed Alt wrote: <BR>> <BR>> > I've seen Dave Lockhart and a handful of others do a snap in a similar <BR>> > positively loaded condition? You see a very well defined pitch break <BR>> > a clear indications of an autorotation. I know, planes differ etc, <BR>> > but I'm still not buying that as a snap. <BR>> <BR>> These comments are exactly why I think we should drop snaps from our <BR>> maneuver schedules. In my opinion, for a maneuver to be considered a <BR>> good maneuver, it should be difficult to do well and easy to judge. <BR>> Snap rolls don't meet that criteria, when so many people can disagree <BR>> on whether a maneuver on a video was or was not a snap roll. <BR>> <BR>> Ron Van Putte <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >> From: "Doug Cronkhite" <SEEFO@SAN.RR.COM><BR>> >> Reply-To: discussion@nsrca.org <BR>> >> To: <DISCUSSION@NSRCA.ORG><BR>> >> Subject: RE: Snap or not (since we have nothing better to do) <BR>> >> Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 08:42:58 -0700 <BR>> >> <BR>> >> You're not going to get much pitch break since the aircraft is already <BR>> >> positively loaded, so reaching critical angle of attack requires much <BR>> >> less <BR>> >> abrupt movement to get there. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> To me.. this is absolutely a snap roll. The rate of rotation is not <BR>> >> constant. There is a definite autorotation going on. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> -Doug <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> -----Original Message----- <BR>> >> From: discussion-request@nsrca.org <BR>> >> [mailto:discussion-request@nsrca.org] On <BR>> >> Behalf Of Ed Alt <BR>> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 4:03 AM <BR>>
>> To: discussion@nsrca.org <BR>> >> Subject: Re: Snap or not (since we have nothing better to do) <BR>> >> <BR>> >> Looks like a real tight and fast barrel roll. Can't discern any <BR>> >> pitch break <BR>> >> <BR>> >> leading to autorotation. Must have had some rudder in it, you can <BR>> >> see an <BR>> >> opposite kick at the end to get back on track. <BR>> >> Ed <BR>> >> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> >> From: "Bob Kane" <GETTERFLASH@YAHOO.COM><BR>> >> To: "nsrca" <DISCUSSION@NSRCA.ORG><BR>> >> Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 11:45 PM <BR>> >> Subject: Snap or not (since we have nothing better to do) <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> >I have a short wmv video taken during the NATS of a <BR>> >> > snap during the Master's Reverse Avalanch. The wmv <BR>> >> > file is posted here: <BR>> >> > <BR>> >> > http://home.wyan.org/~rkane/video.html <BR>> >> > <BR>> >> > Is it a snap or not? You can control the playback <BR>> >> > speed in Windows Media player for a better look by <BR>> >> > turning on the play speed controls under "View", then <BR>> >> > "Enhancements", then turning "Play Speed Settings" on. <BR>> >> > This will give you frame-by-frame control. Watch it <BR>> >> > both at full speed and then frame by frame. <BR>> >> > <BR>> >> > <BR>> >> > Bob Kane <BR>> >> > getterflash@yahoo.com <BR>> >> > <BR>> >> > __________________________________________________ <BR>> >> > Do You Yahoo!? <BR>> >> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around <BR>> >> > http://mail.yahoo.com <BR>> >> > ================================================= <BR>> >> > To access the email archives for t
his list, go to <BR>> >> > http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/ <BR>> >> > To be removed from this list, go to <BR>> >> http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm <BR>> >> > and follow the instructions. <BR>> >> > <BR>> >> > List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from <BR>> >> the <BR>> >> > list. <BR>> >> > <BR>> >> > <BR>> >> ================================================= <BR>> >> To access the email archives for this list, go to <BR>> >> http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/ <BR>> >> To be removed from this list, go to <BR>> >> http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm <BR>> >> and follow the instructions. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from the <BR>> >> list. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> ================================================= <BR>> >> To access the email archives for this list, go to <BR>> >> http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/ <BR>> >> To be removed from this list, go to <BR>> >> http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm <BR>> >> and follow the instructions. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from the <BR>> >> list. <BR>> >> <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > ================================================= <BR>> > To access the email archives for this list, go to <BR>> > http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/ <BR>> > To be removed from this list, go to <BR>> > http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm <BR>> > and follow the instructions. <BR>> > <BR>> > List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from the <BR>> > list. <BR>> > <BR>> <BR>> =========================
======================== <BR>> To access the email archives for this list, go to <BR>> http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/ <BR>> To be removed from this list, go to http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm <BR>> and follow the instructions. <BR>> <BR>> List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from the list. <BR>> </BLOCKQUOTE></body></html>