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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dean</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> That is a very comprehensive explanation. I
have not heard that much detail about all the forces with the engines. I think I
have a good handle on what happens now. I suppose a person could use a
adjustable tension on the nose ring and adjust while the engine is running
and tune out or reduce the bad vibes. That would be interesting to
try.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks for the input.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jim Ivey</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=d.pappas@kodeos.com href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">Dean Pappas</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December 22, 2005 1:09
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [NSRCA-discussion] Nose
Ring</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=062123917-22122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Hi
Jim,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=062123917-22122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>You
weren't sleeping ... just that the whole story is fairly complicated.
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=062123917-22122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Let's say there are three vibrations being sourced from the engine: an
up-down one, a side-to-side one, and a torsional one.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=062123917-22122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>In
these enlightened times we have learned that the torsional one is the
biggie.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=062123917-22122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The
other two are small by comparison.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=062123917-22122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The
axis, around which the rotational inertia of the engine is a
minimum, is at some funky angle to the centerline of the
crankshaft.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=062123917-22122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>That
axis probably runs from just below the middle of the cylinder to a point just
under the engine, below the carburettor.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=062123917-22122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The
last sentence means that any movement in any one axis, will couple to
create movements in any other axes in which the engine is free to
move. That's the cause of crazy nose wobble without a
nosering. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=062123917-22122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>So
we make a big tradeoff: the engine is held fairly stiifly from wobbling the
crankshaft, which attenuates the cross couples.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=062123917-22122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The
cross couples are real bad, and even a tiny amount of play in the nose ring
lets any movement turn into more shake at more different frequencies (RPMs)
than if the nose isn't allowed to move at all. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=062123917-22122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Not
to mention Dave 's very good point about another high frequency content
banging against the play in the nose ring.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=062123917-22122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>But
the biggest reason I use a friction fit, rather than a mere tight fit is not
for rotational forces, but to dissipate the energy when the engine is rotating
at its highest degrees per second, at the idle resonance.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=062123917-22122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>At
full throttle, the peak rotational degrees per second is actually lower than
at idle, because the small time per revolution prevents the engine from having
enough tim to accelerate to any appreciable rotational
speed.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=062123917-22122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Energy absorbtive damping also lowers the resonant RPM, so that with a
good Hyde or Speedmax mount, you might end up with a resonance that is below
your lowest practical idle.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=062123917-22122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Then, you win!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=062123917-22122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>later,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=062123917-22122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Dean</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of
</B>jivey61@bellsouth.net<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:50
AM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Nose Ring<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>But Dean!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My learning of this, was that, the torsional
forces are absorbed by the main mount,whatever configuration and the
nose ring is used to keep the crankshaft from wobbling
up-dn,left-right.It seems that a tight nose ring transfers more of the
bang to the fuse and creates more noise. I guess some mounts
need help with the torsional forces by tightening the nose
ring.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Was I sleeping in class?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jim Ivey</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=d.pappas@kodeos.com href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">Dean
Pappas</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December 22, 2005
10:00 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [NSRCA-discussion] Nose
Ring</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=296445714-22122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Hi,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=296445714-22122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>A tight nose ring offers some friction damping to the large
movements that only happen at idle.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=296445714-22122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>My typical soft mount actually uses a clamping nosering, to dial
inn that friction loss.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=296445714-22122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>A Merry Bah Humbug to all! (vbg)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
class=296445714-22122005> <FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Dean</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of
</B>Tomc@buyrc.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 21, 2005 7:49
PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'NSRCA Mailing List'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:
[NSRCA-discussion] Nose Ring<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I used the new
silver one and had to remove the hub to get it to slide on. It’s very
tight, but I think works better than the looser one.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of
</SPAN></B>jivey61@bellsouth.net<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, December 21, 2005
1:25 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> NSRCA
Mailing List<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nose Ring</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Dave</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Either one will work.I
would prefer a little loose.The gold nose ring isn't available any
more. That is reason to sell the new solid alum. version. Actually
I run a Webra 145 with no nose ring The AR mount is stiff enough to do
this with a 2 S.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim
Ivey</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original Message
----- </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style="font-color: black">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><FONT face=Arial
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<A title=davidsmith@ns.sympatico.ca
href="mailto:davidsmith@ns.sympatico.ca">Dave Smith</A>
</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>
</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Wednesday, December 21, 2005 3:06 PM</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
[NSRCA-discussion] Nose Ring</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think I sent the
following to the wrong address. If so,my
apologies.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have a Central Hobbies
nose ring (the one that is silver coloured and tapped for mounting
bolts).</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">It fits my OS 140
tightly.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I also have the older gold
coloured nose ring that has a very slight amount of clearance between
it and the engine crankcase</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Engine mount is a Hyde
AR.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I don't think the tight
nose ring is the way to go,but I might be
wrong.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Anyone use this tight
ring? Opinions please.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks,,,,,,Dave</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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