[F3A-Discussion] Schedule Proposals F-13/15

Thu Mar 18 06:09:50 AKDT 2010

Thanks for the feedback, Dave.  I’ve sent this on to the CIAM.

From: f3a-discussion-bounces at lists.f3a.us
[mailto:f3a-discussion-bounces at lists.f3a.us] On Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:43 AM
To: f3a-discussion at lists.f3a.us
Subject: Re: [F3A-Discussion] Schedule Proposals F-13/15

I think it is very refreshing to see some criteria to which the P schedules
are to be designed, and hopefully this thought process will carry over into
the F schedules as well (and it appears this way, for this cycle anyway), so
we never again see 9 snap rolls in the same pattern.

Last weekend, I gave a brief look at each of the 13/15 schedules, and
basically flew them as unknowns.  Each schedule was about 6:00 box entry to
box exit – similar to the 11 schedules, and about the right time, my
opinion.  All are pretty good overall, but I think some improvements could
be made, mostly the P-13.  If any of my comments are unclear, please let me
know.  

While I did not do a detailed proofread, I would note there are still some
grammatical/typos that need to be fixed, such as the Titles on the Arestis,
which say “Preliminary Schedule F-

” and the text description for F-15.16
should have the last radius as a push, and not a pull.  

Should have warm weather this weekend, so maybe some more flying on these
schedules.

P-13

P13.07 – 45 Upline with 1.5 snap.

Not a problem, but I really think this maneuver presents better going
upwind.

P-13.09 – Spin with 2.5 turns, 2.5 turns in opposite direction.

This means the spin reversal is going to happen DOWNWIND!!!  Not a good
idea, and IF the airplane actually remains STALLED during the reversal, it
will not present well.  This is a big mistake, and should be changed to 2.25
turns reversed, or 2 turns reversed.

Between P-13.11 and P-13.12, there is very little room for a straight line
if the Cuban is flown large (and it will present best large, with the
integrated rolling components) and the following ½ loop is flown large (and
it should be, considering maneuver 13 is a Square Loop with 4 half rolls).

P-13.14 Figure 9.

Why are we starting a Figure 9 at top of the box??  Not the best turnaround
selection following a tall center maneuver.

P-13.15 Roll Combination.

This is medium length rolling maneuver being done downwind.  I like the
maneuver itself, but the combination of P-13.14, P-13.15, and P-13.16 is not
the best as the turnarounds require substantial box, cutting short the
amount of room for the rolling maneuver.

P-15

P-15.07 – 1/6 rolls x3, reversed

Ok
I guess.  Do we really need a 1/6 rolling element?

P-15.14 – ½ Square Loop on Corner w/ ½ rolls

This will be pretty cramped and rushed, considering the complexity of the
maneuver, and the entry height is mid-box.

P-15.15 – 45 Upline with 2 rolls reversed

Maneuver itself is fine, but the combination of P-15.14, P-15.15, and
P-15.16 is not the best as the turnarounds require substantial box, cutting
short the amount of room (horizontal and vertical) for the 45 Upline.

F-13

F-13.07 – Roll Combination, ¼ roll w/ reversed snaps.

Interesting maneuver.  Maneuver will have to be kept short to avoid a pinch
spot into the following Shark Fin turnaround (F-13.08)

F-15

F-15.07 - Horizontal Triangle Circle.

Interesting maneuver.  Will be very difficult to judge the shape.  I’d
prefer to see this done in the vertical plane, as it would be easier to
judge, and require less overflight area at airfields.

F-15.14 - ½ 6 sided loop.

This will be pretty cramped and rushed, considering the complexity of the
maneuver, and the entry height is mid-box.

F-15.15 – 4 Rolls reversed.

LONG maneuver.  Should be a challenge.

Regards,

Dave Lockhart

DaveL322 at comcast.net

  _____  

From: f3a-discussion-bounces at lists.f3a.us
[mailto:f3a-discussion-bounces at lists.f3a.us] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 1:18 AM
To: f3a-discussion at lists.f3a.us
Subject: [F3A-Discussion] Schedule Proposals F-13/15

More information about F13

I think F-13 Arestis look good now, just in F13.05 the arrow for the first
roll may point downwards instead of upwards.

As for the manoeuvre description, may be it would be better to say:

“From upright, perform a ¼ horizontal circle while performing the first ¼ of
two rolls, then while continuing the rolling (¼ of the rolls per ¼ of the
circles), perform immediately another (full) circle in the opposite
direction, then while continuing the rolling accordingly finish the
remaining ¾ of the first circle, exit upright. The rolling direction is to
the outside of the first 1/4 circle.”

Ken, thank you very much for your initiative and the pilots efforts to test
fly the P-13 and P-15 proposals. 
To make up your meanings, please compare these proposals with the P-Schedule
design criterias as per my Circular September 2009/1:

Characteristics:
-      Basic schedules for every F3A-pilot all over the world.
-      Determined for local, national, and international contests and as
prelimenary schedules for FAI contests and competitions.

Criterias:
-      Manoeuvres technically not too difficult, emphasis on geometrical
accuracy and positioning.
-      Manoeuvre no. 1 with basic elements to show preferred manoeuvre size
and smoothness, K<=4.
-      Complex manoeuvres (K=5) earliest as manoeuvre no. 3.
-      Manoevres to contain all basic elements, and rolls in changing
directions, integrated rolls and knife-edges only starting from low to high.
-      Cross-box manoeuvres have to be combined with corresponding
manoeuvres for eventual compensation of distance variations, mainly in cross
wind situations.
-      Just one snap-roll (in horizontal or up direction) per schedule and
only in center manoeuvres.
-      Maximum 3 manoeuvres K=5 (total K=60). 
-      Harmonic architecture of manoeuvre sequences with respect to best
possible judgeability.

Please also keep in mind that we are still on a discussion/proposal level.
Any modifications, changes, manoeuvers to replace with other ones you may
have in mind should be forwarded to the Subcommittee now, because, as
already announced, I’d like to make a Subcommittee vote on the P-13 and P-15
Schedule proposals by the end of March 2009 to make them firm.

Looking forward to your questions...

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